Whole Foods employees are staging a nationwide 'sick-out' • Hacker News Board

Re: Whole Foods employees are staging a nationwide 'sick-out'

#111

Post by tracker1 » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #75

tracker1 wrote: post #4

Wonder if grocery store workers will largely be forced to unionize and fall under similar terms as airline industry with regards to limitations on a strike. "Essential work"

They already are unionized - at least in my neck of the woods (Ohio). If the Whole Foods employees are not, well, then that should be their first order of business.

My understanding is that a lot of their in-store employees are at-will and part time, and largely not covered by the unions... of course companies and states will vary.

Re: Whole Foods employees are staging a nationwide 'sick-out'

#112

Post by empath75 » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 5:17 PM UTC

knodi123 wrote: post #60

elicash wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd bet that if Amazon agreed to all demands but that one that the workers who organized this would be ECSTATIC. There should be negotiation, back-and-forth. What's frustrating, as somebody not affiliated with the organizing here but has been in similar circumstances, is when the company won't even come to the table to bargain.

> I'd bet that if Amazon agreed to all demands but that one that the workers who organized this would be ECSTATIC. Yeah, except item 1 is "Guaranteed paid leave for all workers who isolate or self-quarantine instead of coming to work." I imagine that if Amazon agreed to that one demand, the workers would be ECSTATIC, because it allows them to get paid whether or not they decide to keep coming to work. I'm not diminis…

> I imagine that if Amazon agreed to that one demand, the workers would be ECSTATIC, because it allows them to get paid whether or not they decide to keep coming to work.

I don't think you're going to see a lot of that because most people are decent and honest human beings.

Re: Whole Foods employees are staging a nationwide 'sick-out'

#113

Post by Nevermark » Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 8:47 AM UTC

fallingfrog wrote: post #105

Nevermark wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this situation workers are taking on risk by showing up due to a pandemic. Did the situation you reference have similar urgent hazardous conditions? Even if that is the case, your counter-example does not produce a counter-fact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_example

One example is enough to disprove the assertion that paid sick time would necessarily be abused any time it is given, which is what the original post asserted. If you’re going to be pedantic at least be correct. What you’ve done is move the goalposts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts#Logical... If the workers in question really are taking this kind of risk, and if their jobs really are essential f…

No one example only proves it is POSSIBLE for paid sick time to not be abused.

It does not ELIMINATE the possibility or even imply it is unlikely.

And in a plague where working puts healthy employee and their families at risk, there is an enormous incentive to not go to work, regardless hazard pay incentives.

BUT I agree:

Paying workers hazard pay is a fair thing to do, assuming the company is capable of doing so.

And paid sick leave for sick people will save lives, again assuming the company is able to.

We can assume Amazon is capable of both.

To eliminate the incentives to abuse that system I would explain to all employees:

(1) You think they deserve hazard pay for staying (2) You will conditionally offer it to them (or be up front why the business can't) (3) You think they deserve paid sick leave (4) You will conditionally offer it to them (or be up front why the business can't) (5) If you are offering either/both hazard pay and paid sick leave, make it conditional:

Each employee signs a form noting they understand the benefits but also understand they can only work if healthy employees show up, and commit to showing up if healthy.

People tend to act honorably when they feel respected, they have given their word, and see the company is doing everything it can for them.

Despite all that, the incentive for healthy workers to avoid a plague are huge and legitimate, so the hazard and sick pay could still muck everything up. But there is not risk free solution.