Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Environmental lawyer who won a judgment against Chevron lost everything

theintercept.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–114 of 114 posts

Re: Environmental lawyer who won a judgment against Chevron lost everything

#111

Post by ryanlol »

Joe-Z wrote: post #109
ryanlol wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So you're proposing the Ecuadorian government should've given a whole lot of money to Chevron to be able to have a say in the matter? Why would buying Chevron shares necessitate giving Chevron money?

Because that's literally what buying shares is?[0]: Giving money to the corporation so they can finance future endeavours. Yes, you may not buy shares from them directly but from some other gambler. Still, to be able to sell you shares they need to have given it to Chevron first. [0] Please correct me if I'm unknowingly bullshitting here!

As you say, someone else has already given Chevron that money. Buying Chevron shares from “some other gambler” does not give Chevron money.

Re: Environmental lawyer who won a judgment against Chevron lost everything

#112

Post by oliwarner »

Lazare wrote: post #66
oefrha wrote: post #11

> Even though the ruling was subsequently upheld by the Ecuadorian Supreme Court, Chevron immediately made clear that it would not be paying the judgment. Instead, Chevron moved its assets out of the country, making it impossible for the Ecuadorians to collect. WTF? A nation state couldn’t have seized the assets? It seems that multinational megacorps are truly more powerful than and above the law in small countries t…

This isn't about scale, it's about location. Ecuador is a LOT more powerful than you are, but assuming you are not currently in Ecuador and don't have any bank accounts in Ecuador, how do you think they could seize any of your assets, if they had a mind to? Their options start (and very nearly end) at "sending you a polite request". The backstory here is, Chevron used to have a lot of assets in Ecuador as part of a j…

> Their options start (and very nearly end) at "sending you a polite request".

They can send much nastier things too. When you get to state-level actions, the law, or at least the repercussions for breaking it gets a lot iffier.

Re: Environmental lawyer who won a judgment against Chevron lost everything

#113

Post by 7532yahoogmail »

Joe-Z wrote: post #109
ryanlol wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So you're proposing the Ecuadorian government should've given a whole lot of money to Chevron to be able to have a say in the matter? Why would buying Chevron shares necessitate giving Chevron money?

Because that's literally what buying shares is?[0]: Giving money to the corporation so they can finance future endeavours. Yes, you may not buy shares from them directly but from some other gambler. Still, to be able to sell you shares they need to have given it to Chevron first. [0] Please correct me if I'm unknowingly bullshitting here!

You'd be giving money to the company if the shares actually came from them. If you're buying on an exchange ... you're exchanging cash for shares with the counterparty almost never ever the company itself. The company is not acting as a market maker on its own stock, for example. The only way the company would benefit is if the purchase increased the ask price so that at the end of the day the price per share was higher.

Re: Environmental lawyer who won a judgment against Chevron lost everything

#114

Post by 7532yahoogmail »

Lazare wrote: post #77
Keverw wrote: post #7

Wow this sounds crazy. He won a lawsuit in Ecuador, so the company got a judge in Manhattan New York to put him on house arrest? Isn't that overstepping their jurisdiction and abuse of power? Seems like a huge miscarriage of justice. Didn't even know this was possible unless there's something I'm missing here? Sounds like someone is acting out of bounds here.

No. Donziger won a lawsuit in Ecuador. There is some evidence that the win was the result, in part, of bribery and fraud, but that's a matter for the Ecuadorian courts, and they're apparently fine with it. So he's not in trouble for that . However, he later started suing in various foreign courts for enforcement of that judgement, and lawsuits filed in the US are the business of US courts, and lawsuits to enforce jud…

Right. Good explanation
Post reply on HN