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Educated Fools

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Re: Educated Fools

#111

Post by overgard »

voxl wrote: post #59
overgard wrote: post #43

I totally agree with the article, but to me the saddest part of all of this is I'm unconvinced that a college education is actually even that useful. (I say that with a four year CS degree). Most majors, to be blunt, are pretty useless in terms of real world skills. The argument is "they teach you how to think". I don't know how you would even measure that, but it doesn't seem that true, especially since colleges are…

This type of concern trolling makes me want to ramp up the "redneck" and "flyover state" rhetoric. If the group of people that idolize Steven Crowder and other PC anti-police can't handle the rhetoric they dish out then let Trump destroy there lives. Because that's the cruel irony, the educated and wealthy are not hurt by Trump nearly as much as the poor white trash are. If you went to University and all you can must…

It's not "concern trolling", although Im struggling to come up with a response to your post since I don't really get what point you're even trying to make.

Re: Educated Fools

#112

Post by Aperocky »

Proziam wrote: post #58
commandlinefan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nobody’s brain will hold a candle to AI Nobody can outrun a car, either, but cars haven’t made humans obsolete. Instead, we use them as tools to accomplish our goals: just as we will with AI.

I'm very undecided about AI, but this argument doesn't feel right to me. The ability to run fast was never the 'unfair advantage' of being human. Cars are a tool to help us overcome physical limitations. But what happens if a general AI is capable of outdoing us intellectually? I'm not of the opinion that AI will just decide to destroy us all or anything particularly extreme. Still, I find it very hard to believe tha…

While AI topic today is all fearmongering essentially, I agree with you that we can’t actually or should actually control something that’s smarter and more advanced than us.

I’ll give the wheel to them, like how I trust my doctor to know what’s best for my body. They might not be the best for me but could be better for the Earth Civilization.

Re: Educated Fools

#113

Post by supernova87a »

The problem of modern liberal America is not a divide between educated / less-educated, or race, or any of that. Those are just symbols that make it easy for someone to try to pin it on those false issues.

The problem is that many liberal-thinking people, having believed that they (or the country) has solved many of the material and quality of life needs in their little pocket of the world (and told thus by the daily media), find rarer and rarer things to become their problems and occupy their consciousness.

In short, liberals ironically are the one-percenters of America. Because they live in relatively safe cities, with good incomes, and concerns for the distant future, they think that transgender bathrooms are the most important topic that should be discussed in the national priorities. Or that MeToo represents the daily worry of every reasonable American. Or because things are so comfortable and rich, why can't we afford to look the other way at immigration laws that we disagree with? Let's have another KQED segment on Latina artists struggling to keep their rent controlled studios in the Mission!

Well, the other half of the country, the 99%, are not interested in putting those rarified political issues before their daily, material struggles, the kind that don't make it to the front page of the New York Times because they're boring. Their unemployment, or only slightly better, their dead end jobs that have experienced no growth in the last 10 years. Their health plans that cost more and more, or their pension benefits that got cut. Or the rejection letters (or just no letters) that come when they try to apply for a different job, run by some company in the very liberal cities that spurn them, whose medium level execs make 7 figure salaries.

Maybe it's time we confronted the fact that unless you can cut off the coasts of this country, we will have to find a way to make the concerns of the middle of this country, our concerns -- concretely and strategically. Because if we don't, that middle of the country will vote to spite everything, before they vote to help themselves, and we will all go down together.

Re: Educated Fools

#114

Post by jayd16 »

overgard wrote: post #106
jayd16 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm unconvinced that a college education is actually even that useful. How is this a question? How many high school grads have you interviewed and thought you could spin them up to the usefulness of a graduate from nothing in a reasonable amount of time/effort? Education is expensive, sure. We can talk about that... but useful? It seems obviously useful to me.

To answer your question: plenty. I've had the pleasure of working with a lot of people without college educations who are great.

Sure. A degree isn't a requirement to be good. That's not whats in question here. I'm trying to illustrate the absurd notion that the skills you gain in college are not useful by pointing out the obvious skill gap between a fresh high school and fresh college grad.

Re: Educated Fools

#115

Post by organsnyder »

drunkpotato wrote: post #110
titanomachy wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that a lot of people feel their degree was not useful. My studies were definitely far removed from what I now do for a living. However, I have not met (except on HN) any successful "knowledge workers" without a degree. I'm sure there are many factors contributing to that: smarter people are more likely to pursue degrees in the first place, companies may ignore otherwise good candidates since they lack a degr…

I did not have a degree in the sciences but I did minor in computer science. I think my degrees are very valuable. It could just be response bias: people happy with their educational experience are quietly satisfied, those unhappy are loudly unsatisfied. Would be my guess. Online responses are not a great sample of the real world.

I'm very happy with my degree (a double-major in CS and music). But even though I make my living working as a software developer, I appreciate my music education more.

Re: Educated Fools

#116

Post by organsnyder »

marcosdumay wrote: post #102
remir wrote: post #53

Now those of us with postgraduate degrees and who are in the elite of the Democratic Party live in our own Versailles, and we don’t know any working-class people either—except perhaps the name of a barista at Starbucks or the woman who comes by at night to clean the office. I think this is one thing churches did really well; people from all social spheres coming together to serve their God. It didn't matter what job…

A long time ago churches did work that way. But during the last ~2 centuries, people of different classes would go into different churches nearer the place they live.

Some churches are better than that at others, and I suspect this has always been the case (unless you go all the way back to churches in Paul's day or something like that).

My church, which is home to a number of college professors, lawyers, and other overly-educated people, is soon to be celebrating a member receiving her high school diploma; she returned to school to finish it (she's in her mid-20s and has two kids) and is just taking initial steps to enter the workforce and try to get away from depending on public assistance.

Re: Educated Fools

#118

Post by [deleted] »

jayd16 wrote: post #97
slowdog wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you're missing the point of the poster above. Poster is more likely asking whether the education gained in college is actually useful vs the doors opened by having that diploma. If one dropped out of college right before graduation with 99% of the education, likely that person would end up with worse off job prospects compared to the person who completed their program

The diploma is useful in certain fields I'm sure. Although I doubt most CS employers would really hold you to it if you explained you never completed your final quarter but aced the interview. However, they said college education not college diploma. They're clearly talking about the skills learned.

[deleted]

Re: Educated Fools

#119

Post by roenxi »

baybal2 wrote: post #6

Man, this is gold. I for long tried to write something along those lines, but I think the author did summarise my thoughts better than I could've done myself. The class conflict — something that western literati class keep denying acknowledgement, is really the driver of much of social progress. And this holds more even more true in the West than in the East. The class warfare is there, it exists, and it is what has…

One of the things the article hits quite well that is otherwise hard to put a finger on - the effective media personalities, etc, etc, are basically all either from or in the process of migrating into the upper class quite quickly by virtue of making lots of money.

So any class struggles, much as I dislike the term, are very effectively silenced by the media because none of the talking heads have an interest in putting it up in lights.

It adds an interesting perspective to Trump and the incoming Twitter/Facebook/Youtube revolution that seems to be hitting the political sphere. It is harder to drown out lower class opinions because the broadcasting channels have become so accessible.

Re: Educated Fools

#120

Post by anonsivalley652 »

Raw intelligence, by itself, is just that: raw. A wise and learned individual has to go beyond multiple choice exam pedigree and actively seek-out the nuances of history and the real world rather than retreating into a comfortable filter bubble. Furthermore, the lack of quality mentors and parental involvement has contributed to a decline of empathy and decency. Otherwise, the result is plenty of "smart" people who are below average in other life domains including self-awareness, philanthropy and civic participation.
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