More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could • Hacker News Board

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#111

Post by streb-lo » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 7:11 PM UTC

remarkEon wrote: post #88

streb-lo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should people in CA let people from OK move there? They probably have more in common with major metropolises world-wide than they do a rural farming community they happen to share a nation with. People are pointing out the hypocrisy in the selective application of freedom-of-movement. There may or may not be valid reasons for this but don't pretend its grounded in self-determination.

It is absolutely grounded in self-determination. That people from CA let people from OK move there is their choice . They could levy taxes on movers to discourage this no problem. And, frankly, I bet if you put this up to a vote a lot of people in (metropolitan) California would be just fine with a policy that aimed to keep those stinking farmers away.

Which would be very quickly struck down by the Supreme Court, like many of the other levies/duties that have been attempted to be applied on new residents from other states.

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#112

Post by HBKXNCUO » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 7:17 PM UTC

streb-lo wrote: post #78

ravenstine wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because different groups of people have their own interests, shared culture, etc. Just because you don't mind a homogeneous global culture doesn't meant that others do or should.

Why should people in CA let people from OK move there? They probably have more in common with major metropolises world-wide than they do a rural farming community they happen to share a nation with. People are pointing out the hypocrisy in the selective application of freedom-of-movement. There may or may not be valid reasons for this but don't pretend its grounded in self-determination.

The people in CA have certain shared interests with the people of OK. They have, for instance, pooled their military resources together, so that if anyone invades CA, soldiers from OK will protect it the same as they would OK.

To cement that special relationship, the people of those states have given each other certain privileges, such as being allowed to move freely between those states.

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#113

Post by goles » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 7:18 PM UTC

fehyjn wrote: post #5

Still don’t understand why I can’t just move to another country... I have a degree, no criminal records. But I need visas, permits, etc. Why all this difficulties?

No offense intended but this strikes me as an underlying sentiment of entitlement. If we rephrase the question,

"Why should this person and by extension country allow a stranger who may or may not align with their culture, politics, society, etc in for an indefinite time with no restriction?"

What would be your answer?

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#114

Post by bassman9000 » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 7:22 PM UTC

magila wrote: post #51

refurb wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the poll answers your question. It would be a little bit disruptive if 140M people suddenly moved to the US.

If we just threw open the flood gates sure, but that's far from the only option. Simply increasing the immigration quotas gradually year-over-year would eventually allow an equilibrium to be reached without creating a large shock to the economy.

And I bet the imported values would be exactly the same as the ones held by the current citizens.

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#115

Post by goles » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 7:23 PM UTC

streb-lo wrote: post #111

remarkEon wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absolutely grounded in self-determination. That people from CA let people from OK move there is their choice . They could levy taxes on movers to discourage this no problem. And, frankly, I bet if you put this up to a vote a lot of people in (metropolitan) California would be just fine with a policy that aimed to keep those stinking farmers away.

Which would be very quickly struck down by the Supreme Court, like many of the other levies/duties that have been attempted to be applied on new residents from other states.

Would like to read more about this, can you provide a source?

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#116

Post by devmunchies » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 7:36 PM UTC

1996 wrote: post #89

mytherin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stronger in what sense? Eradicating other cultures/people? Brainwashing/controlling people not to change their beliefs and stick to their culture? Are these properties you think are desirable in a culture?

Stronger in that it can survive, and that people adopt it because makes sense economically. Cultures have no inherent worth. Civilizations live and die.

>Cultures have no inherent worth

peak nihilism. Then nothing has inherent worth. we choose whats valuable. Culture is valuable.

>people adopt it because makes sense economically

that depressing. A restaurant on every corner is also good for the GDP but I'd rather cook a meal with my family and friends.

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#117

Post by devmunchies » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

1996 wrote: post #29

devmunchies wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

technology changes the rules of free market. 300 years ago you couldn't move thousands of people across the planet in a day. Migration was slow and sustainable. Technology + No borders can destroy entire cultures.

> Technology + No borders can destroy entire cultures. And that's a good thing. The strong cultures will survive. I don't care if it is mine or not. If it is better, it's in my interest that it wins, and that I adopt it. If you think differently, take a second to think about the implications: what exactly do you gain from a culture so weak that it can be destroyed by technology and a little immigration? Do you get so…

what exactly do you gain from a ______ so weak that it can be destroyed by technology and a little immigration?

you can put anything in that blank. coral reefs, imagination, happiness, ecosystems...

>a little immigration

a little? no, before technology we had a little.

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#118

Post by Blake_Emigro » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 7:44 PM UTC

I've worked in this industry for a while, helping people immigrate to Canada, and one interesting thing I've experienced are newcomers that don't want their former peers following them. They left for a different way of life and don't want the past recreated in their new home.

For myself I tend to agree - I want to help those that believe moving to my home country will improve their lives, while at the same time want them to leave some baggage behind. Multiculturalism is great, until it isn't.

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#119

Post by jermaustin1 » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 7:46 PM UTC

mrighele wrote: post #102

jermaustin1 wrote: post #43

First World Problem, I know, but: I don't understand why I should not be allowed to take a 2 year vacation in another country without having to leave every 6 months and pray the border agent doesn't find it suspicious that I keep coming back. I don't want to take someone's job, or milk the welfare system, and I would be a net positive to anywhere I decided to vacation (sales tax/VAT, property tax, hotel tax, income t…

> I don't understand why I should not be allowed to take a 2 year vacation in another country without having to leave every 6 months and pray the border agent doesn't find it suspicious that I keep coming back. If you live in a country for 50%+1 days of a solar year you're considered resident in that country and this has a number of implications (first of all taxes). I guess that's why you can't get more that 6 month…

I know the UK allows you 180 days continuous stay, and then you have to leave, but can technically just wait a day and come back, the only problem is the border agent might not like it.

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#120

Post by streb-lo » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 7:50 PM UTC

HBKXNCUO wrote: post #112

streb-lo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should people in CA let people from OK move there? They probably have more in common with major metropolises world-wide than they do a rural farming community they happen to share a nation with. People are pointing out the hypocrisy in the selective application of freedom-of-movement. There may or may not be valid reasons for this but don't pretend its grounded in self-determination.

The people in CA have certain shared interests with the people of OK. They have, for instance, pooled their military resources together, so that if anyone invades CA, soldiers from OK will protect it the same as they would OK. To cement that special relationship, the people of those states have given each other certain privileges, such as being allowed to move freely between those states.

No, the people of CA have surrendered their ability to make these decisions to the State in exchange for certain benefits. The people in CA cannot, for instance, allow workers from London to freely immigrate despite their shared interests and mutual benefit.

I'm not making a value judgement on that claim -- just pointing out that it's no different than if two or more countries were to subvert their provinces/cities/communities/etc's wishes and allow for freedom of movement in pursuit of some benefit.