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Alphabet’s Chief Legal Officer Stepping Down Amid Investigation

nytimes.com

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Re: Alphabet’s Chief Legal Officer Stepping Down Amid Investigation

#111
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consent is murky at best when there's a large power discrepancy between two co-workers. See: everything that's been going on with Hollywood in the past couple of years

Did it occur that the employee might be attracted BECAUSE of the power discrepancy?

Sort of: "I 'want' to have sex with him because I don't get to decide not to have sex with him and keep my job"

Re: Alphabet’s Chief Legal Officer Stepping Down Amid Investigation

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He specifies that he was there over 20 years, prior to the company being incorporated, and only joined full-time in 2002. That being said: David Drummond is a terrible person[0], who only has been there this long because of Larry Page and Sergey Brin's protection, because they are terrible people too[1][2]. The way Google's highest executives have treated women is disgusting and inexcusable. And while Drummond may no…

> After our son was born, I received a call from HR notifying me that one of us would have to leave the legal department where David was now Chief Legal Officer (...) This sounds like the worst possible policy I can think of. Get pregnant from your boss, and HR kicks you from the team! How does that help anyone?

I wonder what they would have said if her response had been, "OK, David can leave. I'm fine right here." It's hardly like they could fire her for refusing to leave her job after her boss knocked her up. Unfortunately all these kinds of hypotheticals that come up in these situations are impossible to test, because the person without power always has too much on the line to stand up and fight.

Re: Alphabet’s Chief Legal Officer Stepping Down Amid Investigation

#113
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "evil" about not wanting to see a child that you presumably didn't want to begin with? A woman with an unwanted pregnancy can abort. Men don't have that option. But that doesn't obligate them to an emotional bond with the child.

> What is "evil" about not wanting to see a child that you presumably didn't want to begin with? The child doesn't get a choice about being brought into the world, so your desire or intent to produce a child is irrelevant. If you don't want to father a child, don't do anything that could reasonably lead to producing a child. If you father one anyway, that's on you. To deliberately alienate yourself from your child in…

> The child doesn't get a choice about being brought into the world, so your desire or intent to produce a child is irrelevant. If you don't want to father a child, don't do anything that could reasonably lead to producing a child. If you father one anyway, that's on you.

That's on a man no more than it's on a women if she gets pregnant and the previous agreement was that the guy had to use condoms and he didn't. Otherwise what you're saying is "if you don't want to get STDs or have kids never have sex". Luckily that's not how the law works.

Re: Alphabet’s Chief Legal Officer Stepping Down Amid Investigation

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well she's stuck raising the son of an emotionally abusive sociopath. Besides that he pressured her into quitting with promises of financial support, then left her with the baby and refused to pay. I can't even comprehend the type of person who doesn't see the cruelty of this man. She trusted the wrong person, that doesn't justify his behavior.

>Besides that he pressured her into quitting with promises of financial support, then left her with the baby and refused to pay. California doesn't have child support? If he's not in his child's life he's a scumbag but at the very least I'm assuming the child is getting a very generous financial contribution.

From her blog post she did eventually get a custody arrangement which requires he pay substantial (in her words) child support.

Re: Alphabet’s Chief Legal Officer Stepping Down Amid Investigation

#115
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is "evil" about not wanting to see a child that you presumably didn't want to begin with? The child doesn't get a choice about being brought into the world, so your desire or intent to produce a child is irrelevant. If you don't want to father a child, don't do anything that could reasonably lead to producing a child. If you father one anyway, that's on you. To deliberately alienate yourself from your child in…

And yet, we generally accept that women have the right to an abortion regardless of their willfully chosen actions prior. How do you square the two positions? Note that I'm not arguing that the man has a right to absolve himself of financial responsibility.

An abortion doesn't result in a person so it's not really comparable. My understanding is that the vast majority of surgical or medical abortions occur due to either 1) grave risk to the mother's life 2) serious genetic defects or malformities in the fetus or 3) well before viability (during a time when spontaneous abortions are also common)

Re: Alphabet’s Chief Legal Officer Stepping Down Amid Investigation

#116
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct, that's not how companies usually make their personnel decisions. But one would think more companies would factor in PR-risk as a real financial risk. But Google being Google economically-speaking, this still probably isn't a material event.

There's also the risk of employees not being able to work effectively if they don't feel safe/comfortable in their work environment.

So it is in fact very much how business works... between bad PR and company cultural issues. This stuff matters.

Not to mention businesses have customers and investors who care about these things.

Re: Alphabet’s Chief Legal Officer Stepping Down Amid Investigation

#117
post #83

I really liked Ben Horowitz's new book "What You Do Is Who You Are". However, the only passage that I disliked and stood out to me is when he defended David Drummond for his ability to thrive at Google for a long time despite the corporate culture changing. This was after Drummond was called out publicly for abandoning his kid he had with a subordinate: https://www.law.com/corpcounsel/2018/10/25/report-alphabet-c...…

That's not how business works.

The idea that business cares only about profit is just plain wrong. The law people think of is almost never relevant. Each year, millions of business decisions are made knowing full well that it will cost a bit of money, not bring in any (or even good PR), but is the decent thing to do.

As but one example: Google once gave us money for a non-profit event, in no way related to their business, with explicit instructions not to mention them.

Re: Alphabet’s Chief Legal Officer Stepping Down Amid Investigation

#118
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no criminal law against it, but it opens you up to civil suits from aggrieved parties (who can be either participants in the affair or bystanders who feel they were given a raw deal because of the relationship). Hiring, firing, and performance management is supposed to be based on your performance at doing your job, not because your boss dumped you and now dislikes you. Sexual harassment and discrimination su…

You're assuming there are "aggrieved parties". To the best of my knowledge nobody was "aggrieved" by Sergey at least. He probably had them sign something before the "massage" or else I'm sure we'd see some lawsuits. Don't get me wrong, I'm not justifying sexual harassment in any way. But it's not "harassment" if it's wanted and consensual, and it's not _automatically_ unethical if the employee is not in his chain of…

This is reasonable, but it's very hard to be outside the sphere of influence of a company's top officer, even if you are formally not a direct report. At the very least, it is risky for that top officer, because it would be hard to shake off any accusations of coercion, were they brought up. And, of course, actual coercion becomes much easier, within certain range.

Re: Alphabet’s Chief Legal Officer Stepping Down Amid Investigation

#119
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how business works.

The idea that business cares only about profit is just plain wrong. The law people think of is almost never relevant. Each year, millions of business decisions are made knowing full well that it will cost a bit of money, not bring in any (or even good PR), but is the decent thing to do. As but one example: Google once gave us money for a non-profit event, in no way related to their business, with explicit instruction…

If your anecdote is true then how do you know that?
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