San Francisco has nearly five empty homes per homeless resident • Hacker News Board

Re: San Francisco has nearly five empty homes per homeless resident

#111

Post by pmoriarty » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

GrayTextIsTruth wrote: post #53

damnyou wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American billionaires dont pay much taxes either. The solution to this is to fix the tax code, not retreat further into nationalism.

>not retreat further into nationalism God forbid we feel any natural affinity towards our fellow countrymen. Any alternative is so artificial and forced.

"God forbid we feel any natural affinity towards our fellow countrymen"

Such an affinity is not "natural" because no one is born with any sort of innate ability to distinguish among nationalities, much less feel any affinity towards certain nationalities.

Any such distinctions and feelings are taught through indoctrination such as nationalistic rituals, media, and the attitudes of those around you.

A nationality is a legal fiction which changes absolutely nothing about who a person really is or what they do.

Nationalism and group affiliation have been the causes of some of the worst atrocities in history, so we should be very wary of encouraging either.

Regardless of their nationality, I personally feel much more affinity with someone who is helping others over one who is hurting others.

Re: San Francisco has nearly five empty homes per homeless resident

#112

Post by filoleg » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

aaronbwebber wrote: post #92

biznickman wrote: post #4

When I lived in San Francisco, the newly built condo building across from me was fully empty (but fully sold) for all the years I lived there. This is a tower in SOMA. There was only one apartment which appeared to be a corporate one that was occasionally utilized. The rise of foreign money parking money in real estate has screwed things up on a global level. San Francisco has felt the brunt of this due to their insa…

I call bullshit. Say what tower it was, and when it was built, and what time frame you are actually talking about so we can verify for ourselves whether it was actually empty or not, or even if it was empty whether it was empty for a good reason (e.g. not having it's habitability permit). Otherwise this is the worst kind of anecdata - not even enough detail to verify that the anecdote is true, nevermind whether it is…

Cannot speak for SF, but that was definitely the case with highrises in downtown Vancouver. Saw quite a few of those next to the waterfront that had 90% of the apartments (visible from the ground) completely empty or even have the plastic cover on the windows on the inside, with very few (i could count less than 5 of those out of about 30 being visible enough to judge) having anything on the inside.

Re: San Francisco has nearly five empty homes per homeless resident

#113

Post by GrayTextIsTruth » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

damnyou wrote: post #66

GrayTextIsTruth wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>not retreat further into nationalism God forbid we feel any natural affinity towards our fellow countrymen. Any alternative is so artificial and forced.

correct! I believe that the only groups it is moral to care about are: * people you love, care about, or otherwise know socially * groups that are oppressed along some axis * all of humanity

>all oh humanity

Local life is naturally more important to me. I care more about the dying bird populations in my forest than “humanity” on the other side of the planet. You’re spreading your love too thin.

Re: San Francisco has nearly five empty homes per homeless resident

#114

Post by sigstoat » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

lkbm wrote: post #67

Reedx wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are houses throughout the Bay Area sitting empty, just being used as a relatively safe store of value. That goal is already achieved without having to deal with the overhead of managing the property and tenants. So the homes just sit... empty.

Seems strange. Surely a management company would happily handle all that hassle and provide a secondary income stream. Sign a couple forms and boost investment income by a few percent? Surely that's not significantly more burdensome than the bureaucratic hassle of purchasing the property in the first place. I guess there's some significant tax/regulatory difference between capital gains from holding property vs. an i…

> Seems strange. Surely a management company would happily handle all that hassle and provide a secondary income stream.

unfortunately management companies require managing themselves. even if you find a good one, they won't necessarily stay good, so you're firing them, getting new ones, etc.

and i've never heard of one that will let you hand them a property, and then eat all of the risk for you and provide a simple de-risked income stream. even if they'll do a good job of handling 100% of maintenance tasks, they're still going to send you the bills.

Re: San Francisco has nearly five empty homes per homeless resident

#115

Post by robbyking » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 5:47 PM UTC

cmclaughlin wrote: post #110

aaronbwebber wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call bullshit. Say what tower it was, and when it was built, and what time frame you are actually talking about so we can verify for ourselves whether it was actually empty or not, or even if it was empty whether it was empty for a good reason (e.g. not having it's habitability permit). Otherwise this is the worst kind of anecdata - not even enough detail to verify that the anecdote is true, nevermind whether it is…

I'm all for backing up claims, but drive through Pac Heights and Cow Hollow at night - you won't see many lights on in those mansions. Drive by during the day and all you see is construction workers and gardeners tending to the properties there. It's pretty obvious people don't live there more than a couple months a year. These are the ultra rich with property in the most expensive cities all over the world.

> I'm all for backing up claims, but [...] you won't see many lights on in those mansions.

I'm with you 100%. I lived in SF from 1998-2006, then again for a few years in the 2010's, and when rental prices are high landlords seem to prefer holding out rather than lowering their rates. I assume this is to avoid locking a potentially valuable rental unit into a low, rent-controlled lease. (On a side note, this is why many economists believe rent control is bad overall for rental markets: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/rent-control/)

Re: San Francisco has nearly five empty homes per homeless resident

#116

Post by notJim » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

flaque wrote: post #45

Many of these homes probably aren’t “empty” in the sense that someone’s just holding on to them long term. This article is citing the vacancy rate, which includes rentals where someone left and the landlord is trying to find a new tenant. Any city will have some % of empty rentals, if it didn’t, no one would ever move around. According to the US Census, [1] San Francisco’s vacancy rate is 5.4%, New York’s is 4.5%, an…

> build more housing and put them in it

This is exactly what they want. Their contention is that SB50 doesn't place enough emphasis on affordability, so developers will mostly build market-rate housing. If you build enough market rate housing, the prices do eventually come down, but that takes a while to happen. During that time, a lot of people can lose their homes, especially since lower-income areas can be the most profitable ones to build new housing in. So the people who need it most never end up seeing the benefits of lower prices from market-rate housing, because they get kicked out of the city before those benefits kick in.

Re: San Francisco has nearly five empty homes per homeless resident

#117

Post by christopherbalz » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

Not surprising; the Fed is intent on ever-inflating the housing asset bubble.

Re: San Francisco has nearly five empty homes per homeless resident

#118

Post by stcredzero » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

lkbm wrote: post #67

Reedx wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are houses throughout the Bay Area sitting empty, just being used as a relatively safe store of value. That goal is already achieved without having to deal with the overhead of managing the property and tenants. So the homes just sit... empty.

Seems strange. Surely a management company would happily handle all that hassle and provide a secondary income stream. Sign a couple forms and boost investment income by a few percent? Surely that's not significantly more burdensome than the bureaucratic hassle of purchasing the property in the first place. I guess there's some significant tax/regulatory difference between capital gains from holding property vs. an i…

Surely a management company would happily handle all that hassle and provide a secondary income stream.

Sounds like an opportunity here! The Chinese market for "stores of value" is quite high! There are tons of largely empty high-rise condos in China for this very reason. What about a company that has the connections and know-how to smooth over the transactions, then puts management into place to get AirBNB/rental income?

Re: San Francisco has nearly five empty homes per homeless resident

#119

Post by robbyking » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

jlmorton wrote: post #108

earlINmeyerkeg wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't like 90% of the homeless population people with a significant mental illness that they cannot provide for themselves? That's because the normal competent people don't remain homeless long and just need short term temporary assistant. Whereas the large portion of homeless actually are not competent enough to support themselves.

No [1]. Only 8% of the currently homeless population became homeless because of mental illness. People with mental illnesses are by far the most visible of the homeless, because they are crazy. But they make up a minority of the population. 18% became homeless because of drug, or alcohol abuse. 42% report drug, or alcohol usage, even if that might not be the cause of their homelessness. 39% report psychiatric issues,…

Thank you for your post. I think there is often a skewed perception of people experiencing homelessness because more often than not they only see the people who have the greatest issues with mental health and addiction.

Re: San Francisco has nearly five empty homes per homeless resident

#120

Post by GrayTextIsTruth » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #111

GrayTextIsTruth wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>not retreat further into nationalism God forbid we feel any natural affinity towards our fellow countrymen. Any alternative is so artificial and forced.

"God forbid we feel any natural affinity towards our fellow countrymen" Such an affinity is not "natural" because no one is born with any sort of innate ability to distinguish among nationalities, much less feel any affinity towards certain nationalities. Any such distinctions and feelings are taught through indoctrination such as nationalistic rituals, media, and the attitudes of those around you. A nationality is a…

I say national but I mean local as opposed to global. My town is more important than my county which is more important than my state, etc. my philosophy also extends to animals and plants, meaning it’s not a human-centric view but biocentric. It’s doesn’t seem natural to care less about local Bird/insect populations and local ecosystems as much as human poverty on the other side of the planet.