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America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

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Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#111

Post by linuxftw »

mcv wrote: post #61
cowpig wrote: post #10

The title of the article states that milk producers are "going bankrupt," but then cites the rising costs of raw milk, which seems like a good thing for a milk producer. So I look up the company on wikipedia and Borden Dairy is a processor & distributor, not a producer. Furthermore, "employee pension obligations" being cited as a primary cause of bankruptcy without any more details raises a red flag for me. This arti…

I keep reading weird stuff from the US about employee pension obligations being a burden on companies, and those savings getting eaten or stolen in all sorts of corporate shenanigans. Are these things really not handled by life insurance companies and subject to all sorts of regulation? That sounds woefully irresponsible.

You should look into the GM/UAW worker bailouts. It's total corruption, top to bottom. Basically, the UAW 'invested' in GM unsecured debt. GM files for bankruptcy, those bonds become worthless. With no authority whatsoever to do so, the US government gave those bonds seniority in the bankruptcy, nationalized GM, and left senior creditors holding the bag. All of this was completely unprecedented and way outside of what the law allows. There wasn't a lot of mainstream coverage of all this, you had to dig for smaller journalists to find what was actually happening.

But anyway, that's the name of the game. Take on a lot of debt, stuff that debt into your pension, go bankrupt, company is restructured without pension debt. There is also the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation, so this corporate debt is shift to the tax payer.

It's corruption that knows no bounds in the USA. Both major political parties are guilty, we have to dismantle the federal monster, it's the only way forward.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#112

Post by [deleted] »

Retric wrote: post #105
asdf21 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Take the employer out of the equation once they're no longer relevant. Not exactly, if the company is willing to go so far as bankruptcy / reincorporation... how will any previous contracts with whatever insurance company last through that?

The idea is an employee’s pension must be fully funded before they leave and then handled by a 3rd party. At that point the company could dissolve without impacting retired workers.

[deleted]

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#113

Post by jellicle »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #74
_bxg1 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how bigger waves haven't yet been made about these locusts. Where's the New York Times expose? Proposals by Congress on how to make this vampirism illegal? Literally anything?

If you want to fix this going forward, make all new defined-benefit pensions plans illegal, as we have amply demonstrated that they can't be trusted over the course of a lifetime. Putting your future in the hands of an automaker was bad enough; why do we expect someone to put their future in the hands of a dairy? A defined-contribution pension plan, where you end up actually owning the assets in question, is the only…

That's like making banks illegal because you discovered bank robbery exists.

The obvious solution is simply to get rid of the laws that allow and encourage corporations and courts to collude in stealing employee pensions.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#115

Post by KKRCo »

specialist wrote: post #88
koboll wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't discharge student loans in bankruptcy, you damn well shouldn't be able to discharge pensions you've promised your employees for decades.

Pensions are just deferred compensation, part of the total benefits package (salary, health insurance, etc). They're not entitlements, giveaways, lottery tickets, whatever. Maybe the most insidious side effect of transition to 401k was tricking people without pensions that somehow pensioners are unfairly compensated.

Would you be willing to elaborate more on this comment?

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#116

Post by jandrese »

_bxg1 wrote: post #28
sp332 wrote: post #3

A counterpoint: these companies were recently bought by private equity firm KKR Co, the same company that loaded up Toys 'R Us with debt and then liquidated it. https://mobile.twitter.com/rhinosoros/status/121424602712711... This bankruptcy filling might just be negotiation in the courts to reduce pension obligations.

I don't understand how bigger waves haven't yet been made about these locusts. Where's the New York Times expose? Proposals by Congress on how to make this vampirism illegal? Literally anything?

Article from today:

https://boingboing.net/2020/01/07/leveraged-buyouts.html

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#117

Post by rusticpenn »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #6
klipt wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whole milk is still recommended by pediatricians for toddlers, I imagine plant based milk is not nutritionally equivalent.

We use pea milk with our kids because they're lactose intolerant. Pediatrician recommended as long as they're getting more protein and fat elsewhere in their diet (which they do). It doesn't hurt that peas don't care how they're raised and treated to produce milk. Dairy milk is not nutritionally necessary in any age cohort. If you enjoy it, that's fine of course, but it isn't required if you don't.

Peas probably do care about these things. We just have not understood the systems yet. I think the research into Plant intelligence and sensitivity is relatively new.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#118

Post by beerandt »

Kye wrote: post #71
hkeide wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet gluten sensitivity is on the rise

Things can seem to be on the rise when awareness and detection improve. For example: the number of known exoplanets grows by the day, but they existed before we knew about them.

>awareness and detection improve.

Increase might be a better word than improve. Number of "diagnosed" cases might have gone up, but I'd argue accuracy of diagnosis has gotten much much worse.

There was a recent study showing only about 1 in 10 people who claimed to be allergic to antibiotics actually had any allergic or other negative response to them.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#119

Post by epx »

Retric wrote: post #87
CuriouslyC wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you chase after a fat, ugly, disgusting woman? I'm guessing no unless you were incredibly desperate. Most women are attracted to a man's status and success the way most men are attracted to physical beauty. You don't need a lot of money, but women don't want to hang around with loser.

A 40% of American women are obese, men still chase after them. 2.2 million more women go to collage than men, that’s one of these signs that women slowly becoming the breadwinners is many relationships with a surprising number of stay at home dads (2+ million). In older couples it’s also not that rare for men to be unable to find work near retirement and women end up as the sole income. Gender stereotypes may have so…

No.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#120

Post by gruez »

koboll wrote: post #35
cowpig wrote: post #10

The title of the article states that milk producers are "going bankrupt," but then cites the rising costs of raw milk, which seems like a good thing for a milk producer. So I look up the company on wikipedia and Borden Dairy is a processor & distributor, not a producer. Furthermore, "employee pension obligations" being cited as a primary cause of bankruptcy without any more details raises a red flag for me. This arti…

If you can't discharge student loans in bankruptcy, you damn well shouldn't be able to discharge pensions you've promised your employees for decades.

How would this work? If the company goes bankrupt and sold all its assets, who will you take the money from?
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