How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019) • Hacker News Board

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#111

Post by forgetfulusr » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 2:21 PM UTC

Yizahi wrote: post #93

thdrdt wrote: post #7

Most western people are very negative about countries like Iran, China and Russia because they are the 'bad guys'. Well this article again shows that there are few countries that will not gain power over dead people. It's sad but true. Now imagine you were living in Iran and came to know about the work of the CIA. Whould you think the USA is the greatest country in the world and democracy is the way to go? I think it…

We can and should discuss reasons which led to current state of the world but there is nothing ambiguous about Iran, China and Russia being bad guys today. No need to put it in quotes. They are indiscriminately killing people in tens of thousands, annexing neighbor territories and in general maintain inhuman totalitarian regimes. And this happens today.

and you can say the same about the US. You don't have to repeat it all over the thread. we should stop looking at everything as black and white. Lets discuss reason why it ia in the current state. Would Iran be in this position today if we hadn't tried to install our democracy to them back in the 50s?

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#112

Post by fulafel » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 2:29 PM UTC

nexuist wrote: post #64

dr_dshiv wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It's really sad. Iran had/has so much potential.

In that regard, the current offensive action may as well be viewed as a breath of fresh air. If blood must be shed to end tyranny, perhaps it is a worthwhile gamble. The Iranian people gain nothing from allowing the current regime to grow. A US-Iran war would almost certainly result in a democratic Iran, with a connected and educated populace capable of maintaining it. I think one of the main flaws in Iraq and Afghan…

The "suffering ended" in a rather grim way for 500k+ people in Iraq: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/iraq-death-toll_n_4102855

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#113

Post by tlear » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 2:31 PM UTC

Please if you are interested in this read more. This article is just garbage.

Start with wiki it is actually surprisingly good.

“The official pretext for the start of the coup was Mosaddegh's decree to dissolve Parliament, giving himself and his cabinet complete power to rule, while effectively stripping the Shah of his powers.[13][14][15]”

Say Boris Johnson dissolves parliament takes all of the power into his own hands and his ministers. Queen tries to relieve him(coup!!!!) has to run away to France :o He then starts imprisoning anyone who has a problem with that.

I also like the legend about CIA managing to bribe a bunch of communists party members to burn down part of Tehran trying to start revolution, at the same time they were bribing: media, army, other counter protestors, security, religious leaders. Just how many agents did they have running this masterclass operation? Nobody in in Tehran clearly had any will of their own.

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#114

Post by Youden » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

Yizahi wrote: post #95

Youden wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most western people are very negative about countries like Iran, China and Russia because they are the 'bad guys'. As a resident of Europe, I don't think that's accurate. I think there are negative views of these countries in the west but I think the negativity is _much_ stronger in the US than the rest of the west. Personally I find the US itself to be a much bigger problem than any of these countries and it seems…

Oh, right, thank you for opening our collective eyes. I didn't know that it is USA who invaded my country, annexed territories as big as whole Belgium and killed tens of thousands soldiers and civilians only in recent years. I was too negative to the poor innocent Russia while all the time I should have known that it was USA all along. The BIGGER problem indeed.

Whatever Russia has done, I don't see it as a threat to the security of the world as a whole. Russia lacks the ability to project force around the world (e.g. it lacks aircraft carriers and a modern air force) and the EU's military spending alone is ~4x Russia's _before_ the Ruble collapsed.

The US however has an obscene amount of military power and has shown that it's happy to use it for a full-scale invasion of another country based on fabricated nonsense. I'm not aware of Russia doing anything remotely similar since its birth (where "birth" refers to the collapse of the USSR).

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#115

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 2:39 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #98

Yizahi wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, right, thank you for opening our collective eyes. I didn't know that it is USA who invaded my country, annexed territories as big as whole Belgium and killed tens of thousands soldiers and civilians only in recent years. I was too negative to the poor innocent Russia while all the time I should have known that it was USA all along. The BIGGER problem indeed.

You might be directly impacted, but in terms of most countries invaded or people killed over the last say 100 years I think the US is rather ahead. Making them a bigger problem for the world even if Russia is a bigger problem for you. Personally as an American I kind of like being part of the ‘evil’ empire. But, I can definitely understand why others might take issue with our actions.

[deleted]

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#116

Post by mensetmanusman » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 2:39 PM UTC

yorwba wrote: post #65

elfexec wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about oil necessarily. It's about energy source or more generally - a valuable resource. If lithium batteries become the new "oil", then lithium rich countries will become targets and oil countries will be ignored. But I think oil will be valuable for many decades to come. Oil use is projected to increase worldwide by every regulatory body. As long as oil is valuable, we'll fight over it. If lithium becomes…

> If lithium batteries become the new "oil", then lithium rich countries will become targets Like Afghanistan, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Afghanistan#Lithium

If lithium reaches a certain price point, then it will just be extracted from ocean water.

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#117

Post by konart » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 2:53 PM UTC

Yizahi wrote: post #101

Retric wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be directly impacted, but in terms of most countries invaded or people killed over the last say 100 years I think the US is rather ahead. Making them a bigger problem for the world even if Russia is a bigger problem for you. Personally as an American I kind of like being part of the ‘evil’ empire. But, I can definitely understand why others might take issue with our actions.

USA killed more people that Russia/USSR over last 100 years? USA annexed more territories than Russia/USSR over last 100 years? Please tell me you are kidding. China is indisputable leader in killing civilians EVER in human history and also quite happy to annex nearby territories. Iran - about the same. If you want to glorify objectively worse entities just for the sake of hating on USA (justified or not) - feel free…

>USA killed more people that Russia/USSR over last 100 years?

If we are counting only people outside of the US\Russia\USSR - than yes, USA killed more. The only major war USSR\Russia faught after the WW2 is Afganistan. All other conflicts USSR\Russia was in resulted in less dead people than the latest Iraq war alone.

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#118

Post by m-p-3 » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 2:58 PM UTC

thdrdt wrote: post #7

Most western people are very negative about countries like Iran, China and Russia because they are the 'bad guys'. Well this article again shows that there are few countries that will not gain power over dead people. It's sad but true. Now imagine you were living in Iran and came to know about the work of the CIA. Whould you think the USA is the greatest country in the world and democracy is the way to go? I think it…

> try to understand their point of view

Everything would be better in this world if we did.

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#119

Post by Const-me » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 2:58 PM UTC

surewhynat wrote: post #99

Const-me wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> were violent and out of control Technically that’s true, but it’s important to remember the protest was peaceful for couple months. Then police started the violence. People have a right of self-defense. > the country has been so much worse off economically and socially Despite Ukraine have been fighting Russian army for almost 5 years now, what you’re saying is not true: https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/gdp-per…

Again, not a post about Ukraine, but, ok ... >Technically that’s true, but it’s important to remember the protest was peaceful for couple months. Then police started the violence. People have a right of self-defense. Violent protest is not the answer, not when they had an election coming up very soon. > Despite Ukraine have been fighting Russian army for almost 5 years now, what you’re saying is not true: Millions of…

> Violent protest is not the answer

Too bad the old Ukrainian government didn’t know it, and started to use violence against it’s own people.

> Millions of people have fled the country to work abroad

The economy is global, air travel is cheap, Internet simplified things a lot. Ukraine is no exception. Globally, 258 million people, myself included, are living outside their country of birth.

> Your graph displaying some growth "per capita growth", have a look at this graph showing the value of their currency

That graph is in USD after adjustments for purchasing power. Currency exchange rates are irrelevant.

> No one can afford to buy any import goods

In 2018, Ukraine has imported goods worth 56 billion USD, smartphones alone were just under $1B: http://www.worldstopexports.com/ukraines-top-10-imports/

> There are dozens of reports of mass emigration

There’s no mass emigration, net migration is around zero: https://blogs.elenasmodels.com/en/ukrstat-migration-statisti...

> But it is not Russian Military doing the fighting

Russians started the war, and they did the fighting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Strelkov_(officer) Their armed forces are still there. It doesn’t matter they deny that, way too much documentary evidence of their direct involvement, for instance read links from that article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_intervention_...

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#120

Post by JoBrad » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 3:03 PM UTC

Youden wrote: post #114

Yizahi wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, right, thank you for opening our collective eyes. I didn't know that it is USA who invaded my country, annexed territories as big as whole Belgium and killed tens of thousands soldiers and civilians only in recent years. I was too negative to the poor innocent Russia while all the time I should have known that it was USA all along. The BIGGER problem indeed.

Whatever Russia has done, I don't see it as a threat to the security of the world as a whole. Russia lacks the ability to project force around the world (e.g. it lacks aircraft carriers and a modern air force) and the EU's military spending alone is ~4x Russia's _before_ the Ruble collapsed. The US however has an obscene amount of military power and has shown that it's happy to use it for a full-scale invasion of ano…

That's not exactly a fair comparison, since Russia hasn't had the funding to make any large-scale invasions since then. However they were more than happy to cut off oil to Europe just a few years ago, invade Ukraine, and generally act in a belligerent way toward several different countries in an effort to destabilize their neighbors.