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The Great Cannon has been deployed again

cybersecurity.att.com

111–120 of 470 posts

Re: The Great Cannon has been deployed again

#111
post #2

This is a good counter example for whenever you find yourself in an argument with anti-adblocker folks.

This is a tiring example of why the web and all its technologies thoroughly suck. It's a boiling toilet fueled by greed.

This just seems like "web bad" naivety.

Popular native apps could execute the same exact attack, except this time you wouldn't be able to simply open a browser's developer console to debug it.

Re: The Great Cannon has been deployed again

#113
post #97
post #6

I didn’t see this anywhere in the article (maybe I missed it), but because this utilizes the Great Firewall, it’s undoubtedly done by the Chinese government, right?

The first paragraph of the article mentions > operates by injecting malicious Javascript into pages served from behind the Great Firewall. These scripts, potentially served to millions of users across the internet, hijack the users’ connections to make multiple requests against the targeted site. These requests consume all the resources of the targeted site, making it unavailable:

Yes, and I would imagine that could only be done inside of the Great Firewall, which I’m pretty sure is operated by the Chinese Government?

Re: The Great Cannon has been deployed again

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But these folks still have no answer for how free websites they consume daily (e.g. news) are to be funded, they don't pay, and don't want to see ads either. Yet they still expect these websites to exist. I use Firefox's built Enhanced Tracking Prevention, that some sites call "ad blocking" but in reality it is super easy to have ads that don't get blocked by it, just make them non-creepy.

I think the primary argument line is something along: 1. Online ads today are so bad they must be blocked 2. But blocking ads blocks revenue for sites we like 3. So we should pay for them more directly 4. But I'm not about to set up 100 different monthly subscriptions. These corporations are not trustworthy and I cannot monitor this many bills. 5. We need a solution to simplify money -> content -> creator transfer 6.…

Bill Hicks had an answer. Nobody seemed to want to do that though.

Re: The Great Cannon has been deployed again

#115
post #10

I've wondered about this, in the years since. Does anyone else have a sense of what (if any) pragmatic technical steps could effectively deter or neuter this tactic? If the network can't demonstrate the ability to at least pump the brakes on this, it's hard to imagine other states or even the owners of large safe-monopoly ISPs won't get a little jealous of the tool.

Centralize behind Cloudflare like everyone else.

Re: The Great Cannon has been deployed again

#116
post #7

So if the cannon is created using the great firewall, how does the Chinese government establish any sort of plausible argument that this isn't state-sponsored activity? Do they just not care? Some day soon a war will not be started with an assassins bullet but with a tool like this. I wonder when we start looking at them the same way?

According to the article, the attacks are currently ineffective for a number of reasons, one being their js code is bugged. Imagine Gavrillo Princip's gun was prone to jamming consistently.

This... actually inspires very little confidence. The assassination of the archduke involved several assassins who each failed iteratively for ridiculous reasons on the motorcade route. Princip himself had decided to give up on the assassination, only to find out the cafe he had gone to ended up being directly on the motorcade path. The serendipity of his proximity was probably the only reason Ferdinand ended up dead that day.

The cannon doesn't have to work all the time, just once effectively, and possibly even accidentally.

Re: The Great Cannon has been deployed again

#117
post #64
post #7

So if the cannon is created using the great firewall, how does the Chinese government establish any sort of plausible argument that this isn't state-sponsored activity? Do they just not care? Some day soon a war will not be started with an assassins bullet but with a tool like this. I wonder when we start looking at them the same way?

[flagged]

The real question is if anyone would've even cared about the atrocities of Nazi Germany if it wasn't in their national interest to go to war.

The reason England and France got into the war is because of Germany's expansionist policies and not because of moral reasons at the time.

Re: The Great Cannon has been deployed again

#118
post #64
post #7

So if the cannon is created using the great firewall, how does the Chinese government establish any sort of plausible argument that this isn't state-sponsored activity? Do they just not care? Some day soon a war will not be started with an assassins bullet but with a tool like this. I wonder when we start looking at them the same way?

[flagged]

It's not that nobody cares, it's that nobody can do anything about it.

Re: The Great Cannon has been deployed again

#119
post #7

So if the cannon is created using the great firewall, how does the Chinese government establish any sort of plausible argument that this isn't state-sponsored activity? Do they just not care? Some day soon a war will not be started with an assassins bullet but with a tool like this. I wonder when we start looking at them the same way?

According to the article, the attacks are currently ineffective for a number of reasons, one being their js code is bugged. Imagine Gavrillo Princip's gun was prone to jamming consistently.

Given Gavrillo Princip's gun was only involved because the grenade missed and then everyone concerned made a series of unfortunate decisions that allowed a second attempt, that example isn’t bringing me any hope.

Re: The Great Cannon has been deployed again

#120
post #51
post #10

I've wondered about this, in the years since. Does anyone else have a sense of what (if any) pragmatic technical steps could effectively deter or neuter this tactic? If the network can't demonstrate the ability to at least pump the brakes on this, it's hard to imagine other states or even the owners of large safe-monopoly ISPs won't get a little jealous of the tool.

Block all traffic from China?

A Hong Kong protest forum becoming inaccessible to Chinese users is the entire objective of the DDoS in the first place.
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