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Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

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Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#111

Post by Gorbzel »

chasil wrote: post #87
fortran77 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really can't work. They'd get unscrupulous people taking phones they sold back, or a couple who broke up where it's not clear who "owns" the phone. Nobody wants to put himself in the middle of these things.

I do not agree. Apple could play the go-between. They could alert the previous owner that the device has been found, and provide a grace period where a user could request return, for a fee, including Apple's S&H, and a finders' fee for the reporting agent. At the expiration of the grace period, Apple could provide a device reset code.

Why is Apple required to act as law enforcement? Moreso, even if they could, why as consumers and technicians should we want them to?

HNers go on and on about big brother Cupertino all the time, but ooh some (well intentioned but misguided) refurb/recycling shop writes an article and all of a sudden critical thinking goes out the window.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#112

Post by StanislavPetrov »

snuxoll wrote: post #25
aeturnum wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be simple for apple to extend the system by allowing recyclers to ask apple to send a message to the previous owner of the device. This would be extremely pro-consumer, because it would allow lost devices to be returned via an official channel. It would also allow users to release their claims on hardware they meant to give away. The "solution" of just expecting the previous owner to never make a mistake is…

> It would be simple for apple to extend the system by allowing recyclers to ask apple to send a message to the previous owner of the device. This would be extremely pro-consumer, because it would allow lost devices to be returned via an official channel. It would also allow users to release their claims on hardware they meant to give away. It would also make recovery of stolen devices easier. Refurbisher has Apple c…

>I don't see the downside here

The downside for Apple is that they want people to be forced to buy new phones from them, not one on the secondhand market from someone else.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#113

Post by tamrix »

crazygringo wrote: post #5

I'm entirely on Apple's side here. It makes me very happy, as a consumer, knowing that if someone steals my phone, they can't get any value out of it. I don't want them to be able to sell it to a refurbisher for cash. And I don't want them to be able to do it with my laptop either. And for refurbishers, it's not hard to make it an obvious required step for anyone looking to sell their own legitimately-owned phone. Yo…

You know you've always had the option to ban the imei number of your phones radio with all the providers. That's making it pretty damn worthless Imo.

What Apple has done just isn't with the trade off.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#114

Post by mrtksn »

j45 wrote: post #102
mrtksn wrote: post #13

I am a big fan of iFixit and dig their teardowns just as much as the device releases themselves but their "Companies should prioritize on ease of repair even if it makes the devices less portable and less secure" narrative flips me. I never, ever buy devices for repair purposes or to resell them without bothering to do a factory re-set. The ideal device is one that doesn't need a repair and I do not accept for my dev…

It’s fine you don’t like to take apart devices. For others it’s part competency (d they have the skills to and part preference. Many technologists in software included some experience in hardware, including device repair, building or servicing servers, etc.

I like taking apart stuff, I always do repair my devices by myself. That being said, what I expect from a device is to excel on its purpose and not compromise on it in the name of repairability. It's simply not true that things are not repairable, just harder. If anyone wants easy disassembly, can buy Lego.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#115

Post by mister_hn »

crazygringo wrote: post #5

I'm entirely on Apple's side here. It makes me very happy, as a consumer, knowing that if someone steals my phone, they can't get any value out of it. I don't want them to be able to sell it to a refurbisher for cash. And I don't want them to be able to do it with my laptop either. And for refurbishers, it's not hard to make it an obvious required step for anyone looking to sell their own legitimately-owned phone. Yo…

But what happens if you delete the entire MacOS X and put Linux or Windows on it? Would it still work with the lock?

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#116

Post by mvanbaak »

shkkmo wrote: post #97
mvanbaak wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple implement a bypass that would allow certified recyclers and refurbishers to unlock donated devices Sure, and now please tell me how long it will take for the non certified 'recyclers' to also know how to bypass this activation lock? This bypass will render the whole feature useless, and can be removed the moment this bypass is implemented.

Not if the bypass requires a cryptographicly signed verification by Apple that the device was not reported stolen.

This still leaves a window where it can be abused. If i get robbed it will take some time before i can enter another system to login to icloud and mark my phone/macbook as stolen.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#117

Post by llampx »

chasil wrote: post #87
fortran77 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really can't work. They'd get unscrupulous people taking phones they sold back, or a couple who broke up where it's not clear who "owns" the phone. Nobody wants to put himself in the middle of these things.

I do not agree. Apple could play the go-between. They could alert the previous owner that the device has been found, and provide a grace period where a user could request return, for a fee, including Apple's S&H, and a finders' fee for the reporting agent. At the expiration of the grace period, Apple could provide a device reset code.

I fail to see why Apple would do this. Is this going to bring them more money?

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#118

Post by llampx »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #29
crazygringo wrote: post #5

I'm entirely on Apple's side here. It makes me very happy, as a consumer, knowing that if someone steals my phone, they can't get any value out of it. I don't want them to be able to sell it to a refurbisher for cash. And I don't want them to be able to do it with my laptop either. And for refurbishers, it's not hard to make it an obvious required step for anyone looking to sell their own legitimately-owned phone. Yo…

> But it still makes me feel better a thief will get $30, not $300, for my phone -- that's often enough of a difference between it being worth it or not. Typically the value of a computer is about the same as the sum of its parts, because otherwise plenty of people would be up for a $270 profit by buying $30 worth of parts and assembling them to sell as a $300 computer. > And if people are dropping these off for recy…

> Typically the value of a computer is about the same as the sum of its parts, because otherwise plenty of people would be up for a $270 profit by buying $30 worth of parts and assembling them to sell as a $300 computer.

From another comment: My understanding is in the current design certain expensive things, like the SoC+Security-Enclave are certed/secure-booted, and I imagine other parts are just generic / "off the shelf" plug in and power up and go.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#119

Post by mantas »

tamrix wrote: post #113
crazygringo wrote: post #5

I'm entirely on Apple's side here. It makes me very happy, as a consumer, knowing that if someone steals my phone, they can't get any value out of it. I don't want them to be able to sell it to a refurbisher for cash. And I don't want them to be able to do it with my laptop either. And for refurbishers, it's not hard to make it an obvious required step for anyone looking to sell their own legitimately-owned phone. Yo…

You know you've always had the option to ban the imei number of your phones radio with all the providers. That's making it pretty damn worthless Imo. What Apple has done just isn't with the trade off.

At least several years ago those IMEI databases weren't shared internationally. It wasn't uncommon for people to learn that their phone was obtained illegally only when travelling far away.
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