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Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

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Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#111

Post by Xelbair »

mike_d wrote: post #107
black_puppydog wrote: post #58

I think it's worth remembering that this nation (the US) is currently trying to get Assange extradited. Part of the decision to be made in the UK should be wether or not the US will grant him a fair trial. There are many reasons to throw that US demand out of the court, but this adds one more: they clearly have zero regard for any of his most inalienable rights. They have repeatedly violated them already, all the whi…

If the CIA collected information in Mexico on the head of a drug cartel, does that automatically mean that he would not receive a fair trial? Of course not. Assange worked with Russian intelligence, either knowingly or as a useful idiot. The US Intelligence agencies had an obligation to determine what sensitive information he held and what he might be trying to do with it.

>If the CIA collected information in Mexico on the head of a drug cartel, does that automatically mean that he would not receive a fair trial?

It means exactly that.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#112

Post by Tomte »

tptacek wrote: post #92
tomjakubowski wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overwhelming German public response to Merkel's bugging was one of outrage. Accepting your argument, doesn't that suggest it was actually out of bounds and not normal?

That outrage is pretty rich, since Germany spies flagrantly on other nations, including their embassies, as well.

Most Germans wouldn't really believe that they do, not because our services wouldn't do it on principle, but because unlike in America, we usually think of our intelligence services as bumbling idiots that fail at spying.

In reality they seem to be somewhat competent at some things, and reports that they do indeed successfully surveil foreign embassies seem to be true.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#113

Post by AnnoyingSwede »

I find it interesting that this news was largely over-shadowed by the news that he was acquitted on the two rape-charges in Sweden (again). The so-called rapes could/should have been dropped a lot earlier as they did not amount to what generally would be considered rape (i.e broken condom in consensual sex), but they choose to do it the same day this story broke.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#114

Post by Bayart »

ttul wrote: post #59
Fnoord wrote: post #51

To the people who say "of course": > The Spanish lawyer Aitor Martinez, one of the lawyers in Julian Assange's legal team filmed by UC Global, tells Repubblica: "Over the years Mr. Assange and his defense team held legal meetings inside the embassy. Those meetings were protected by the lawyer-client relationship and the fundamental right to defense. What about this fundamental right? > However we can see those meetin…

The right to attorney-client confidentiality does not apply in the context of national security intelligence gathering. The United States was within its rights to gather intelligence about a foreign person in a foreign country. Such intelligence would be absolutely inadmissible in court. But intelligence agencies aren't interested in prosecuting people. They are tasked with national security, not prosecution.

>The United States was within its rights to gather intelligence about a foreign person in a foreign country.

According to whom ? US law makers ? I'm quite certain no sovereign nation aknowledges the "right" of anyone else to gather intelligence as they please on their premises.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#115

Post by ndr »

pc86 wrote: post #31
whatshisface wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time news comes out, people say "this was obvious from the start," but every time a suggestion is made before the news has come out people say "that's crazy there is no evidence." It was not the case that he was "of course" being spied on, it was plausible that he was being spied on.

You honestly think if someone had made a comment "the US is spying on Assange directly or through intermediaries" someone would have said they were crazy and there was no evidence of that?

Apparently even his lawyers, from TFA:

"It was Julian Assange who suggested holding the legal meetings inside the women's toilet due to his suspicion of being under intense surveillance. Lawyers had considered it paranoid on Assange's part, and UC Global had reassured them on this count, but in reality microphones had even been placed inside the women's toilet."

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#116

Post by raxxorrax »

ttul wrote: post #59
Fnoord wrote: post #51

To the people who say "of course": > The Spanish lawyer Aitor Martinez, one of the lawyers in Julian Assange's legal team filmed by UC Global, tells Repubblica: "Over the years Mr. Assange and his defense team held legal meetings inside the embassy. Those meetings were protected by the lawyer-client relationship and the fundamental right to defense. What about this fundamental right? > However we can see those meetin…

The right to attorney-client confidentiality does not apply in the context of national security intelligence gathering. The United States was within its rights to gather intelligence about a foreign person in a foreign country. Such intelligence would be absolutely inadmissible in court. But intelligence agencies aren't interested in prosecuting people. They are tasked with national security, not prosecution.

Within its rights? This is just completely false. Incredible reasoning...

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#117

Post by sgjohnson »

Analemma_ wrote: post #61
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the important difference being that Assange is not a spy. Edit: Downvoted for pointing out that Assange is not a spy. I'm honestly surprised by HN.

That's actually very questionable. It's pretty clear by now that at the very least he's a Russian intelligence asset.

[citation needed]

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#118

Post by raxxorrax »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #100
farisjarrah wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't make sense to me, please educate me as to what I am missing. Why is the United States within its rights to gather intelligence within the Ecuadorian Embassy within England? It seems like embassies of foreign countries, not located within the US's borders means that the US government has no legal rights to any of that. To me it looks like the US violated the rights of not just Ecuador's sovereignty, but a…

Spying on foreign people in foreign countries is pretty much every intelligence agency's raison d'etre

Yes, and part of the game is if you get caught you get into serious trouble. Ignoring it is a complete wrong approach.

Assassinating political dissidents is also part of that game, so shouldn't we be angry at Russia? They just did their job, did they?

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#119

Post by tome »

pc86 wrote: post #31
whatshisface wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time news comes out, people say "this was obvious from the start," but every time a suggestion is made before the news has come out people say "that's crazy there is no evidence." It was not the case that he was "of course" being spied on, it was plausible that he was being spied on.

You honestly think if someone had made a comment "the US is spying on Assange directly or through intermediaries" someone would have said they were crazy and there was no evidence of that?

If so someone should easily be able to provide a few links to historical comments saying that.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#120

Post by 18monthsin »

ttul wrote: post #59
Fnoord wrote: post #51

To the people who say "of course": > The Spanish lawyer Aitor Martinez, one of the lawyers in Julian Assange's legal team filmed by UC Global, tells Repubblica: "Over the years Mr. Assange and his defense team held legal meetings inside the embassy. Those meetings were protected by the lawyer-client relationship and the fundamental right to defense. What about this fundamental right? > However we can see those meetin…

The right to attorney-client confidentiality does not apply in the context of national security intelligence gathering. The United States was within its rights to gather intelligence about a foreign person in a foreign country. Such intelligence would be absolutely inadmissible in court. But intelligence agencies aren't interested in prosecuting people. They are tasked with national security, not prosecution.

The problem is parallel construction, the prosecution will use the evidence to build a case then claim they found the information elsewhere.
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