Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

thetyee.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 269 posts

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#111

Post by gyom »

neonfunk wrote: post #96
acangiano wrote: post #24

I'll provide one data point of how this affects Canadian internet users. I currently have no caps with TekSavvy and pay $39 a month. Starting from March 1st, I will pay $31.95/mo with a 25 GB cap. Any gigabyte over the limit will cost about 2 bucks. Now, you can buy a block at discounted prices. According to TekSavvy, based on my internet usage, I will need to buy at least a 275 GB extra block. Believe it or not, I d…

I actually agree with metering; I think it's the only fair measure. Granted, the metering you describe sounds atrocious, and there'll probably be a long messy transition to the point where our internet bill is more like our electric bill. But imagine this: on mobile networks, instead of voice minutes, text messages, data caps, fees for tethering, and every other scheme the Telcos are concocting right now (with regard…

I also agree with metering if we're charged prices that we consider reasonable (defined by the prices that most people are paying elsewhere in the world).

I'd like to pay for internet like I pay for electricity. We pay by the kW*h and that's it. I think it'd be nice to pay a higher rate for electricity / internet during the day if it meant that we'd pay a lower rate during the night.

I keep hearing about how europeans get the mobile phone services waaaay cheaper than we do here. Some guy in a TED Talk said that cell phones were common in poor regions of Africa. There's no way that these poor people are paying what I pay for texting on a mobile phone. :P

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#112

Post by skymt »

neonfunk wrote: post #96
acangiano wrote: post #24

I'll provide one data point of how this affects Canadian internet users. I currently have no caps with TekSavvy and pay $39 a month. Starting from March 1st, I will pay $31.95/mo with a 25 GB cap. Any gigabyte over the limit will cost about 2 bucks. Now, you can buy a block at discounted prices. According to TekSavvy, based on my internet usage, I will need to buy at least a 275 GB extra block. Believe it or not, I d…

I actually agree with metering; I think it's the only fair measure. Granted, the metering you describe sounds atrocious, and there'll probably be a long messy transition to the point where our internet bill is more like our electric bill. But imagine this: on mobile networks, instead of voice minutes, text messages, data caps, fees for tethering, and every other scheme the Telcos are concocting right now (with regard…

Universal bandwidth metering would certainly incentivize moderation. For starters, it would immediately kill the Internet advertising industry, as just about every Internet user would moderate the bandwidth they spend on ads by installing Adblock Plus.

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#113

Post by delano »

jacquesm wrote: post #105
sjs wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This situation really sucks, but remember that those of us with Telus or Shaw don't have anything to complain about at the moment so you aren't hearing about all of us on 10-25 mbps lines, with 50-200 GB soft caps that aren't enforced. I'm torrenting up a storm 24/7, and regularly download shows and movies on iTunes and Netflix, stream Grooveshark at home and on my phone. I don't even hear anything if I use 2x my mon…

Shaw is cable right?

Yep.

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#114

Post by pyre »

xxpor wrote: post #41
jacquesm wrote: post #6

The telecommunications situation in Canada is terrible. Typically, in rural areas the way to get broadband goes something like this: A bunch of people get a deal with a small ISP to finally provide them broadband because Bell says they won't be doing it. Then two weeks after all the gear gets installed and the small ISP starts signing up customers Bell will swoop in with an offer to undercut them and suddenly all the…

As an American, I'm not very familiar with the telco situation in Canada. Is Bell related to AT&T (the old one)? Do they have a approved monopoly over all phone service, ala AT&T way back when (by this I mean do they carry all calls at some point, even if its only as a wholesale co)?

As it was when I was living in Toronto, the last-mile lines are owned by either Bell (DSL/Phone) or Rogers (Cable). Both of those companies are the Canadian telecom heavy-weights.

Rogers does: cable tv, ip phone over cable (ala Comcast in the US), cable internet (which IIRC it own the only coax last-mile lines in the areas where it is a monopoly -- I think that west Canada has a different cable monopoly), the only gsm carrier in Canada+, a chain of video rental stores that competes with Blockbuster Canada.

Bell does: phone, DSL++, and the only CDMA cell carrier in Canada+++.

+ At the time I was living in Canada, there were many smaller GSM players, but they had all been bought out by Rogers, so you largely just had different branded GSM services from the same provider. More recently there have been at least two new GSM players (Wind and Mobilicity) though I believe that their coverage area is mainly just the Greater Toronto Area. [Of note is that Bell and Rogers use the same 3G bands as AT&T does in the US and Wind/Mobilicity use the same 3G bands as T-Mobile does in the US.]

++ The last-mile DSL lines were being sold to 3rd-parties ISPs as well as Bell itself being an ISP on those lines. See me ascii-art diagram in the other thread.

+++ Similar to Rogers, IIRC there were a couple of smaller players that were bought out by Bell so that all of the CDMA carriers were under the Bell 'umbrella.'

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#115

Post by EdwardCoffin »

jacquesm wrote: post #105
sjs wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This situation really sucks, but remember that those of us with Telus or Shaw don't have anything to complain about at the moment so you aren't hearing about all of us on 10-25 mbps lines, with 50-200 GB soft caps that aren't enforced. I'm torrenting up a storm 24/7, and regularly download shows and movies on iTunes and Netflix, stream Grooveshark at home and on my phone. I don't even hear anything if I use 2x my mon…

Shaw is cable right?

Yes

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#116

Post by Swannie »

cal5k wrote: post #95
Swannie wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti-competitive, agreed, mostly (see next point). Net Neutrality, whole other debate. Should Bell be forced to allow equivalent pricing to a competitor to operate the same level of service? Maybe (probably). The pivotal argument in terms of anti-competition, to my view, is: Could someone else build out the infrastructure to allow them to compete? Yes, they could install a CDN close to the DSLAMs, and create their ow…

I would take a broader view of it like so: would not having access to the internet be seriously crippling economically? Are market mechanisms providing service to all Canadians at a reasonable price? I'm going to argue yes to the first point and no to the second. The internet is absolutely necessary to be competitive. As prices continue to ratchet upwards, even as the number of legitimate uses for large amounts of ba…

"Content and infrastructure MUST be separated if we are to effectively create fair pricing conditions and net neutrality."

Or at least strongly regulated. The more I read about the situation there, the more it sucks.

Especially because I remember 10 years ago I was boggling at guys in Canada with 10mbit cable connections (getting 4mbps), whilst 512/128 (getting 200mbps down) ADSL or cable was just becoming a reality here.

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#117

Post by lsc »

neonfunk wrote: post #96
acangiano wrote: post #24

I'll provide one data point of how this affects Canadian internet users. I currently have no caps with TekSavvy and pay $39 a month. Starting from March 1st, I will pay $31.95/mo with a 25 GB cap. Any gigabyte over the limit will cost about 2 bucks. Now, you can buy a block at discounted prices. According to TekSavvy, based on my internet usage, I will need to buy at least a 275 GB extra block. Believe it or not, I d…

I actually agree with metering; I think it's the only fair measure. Granted, the metering you describe sounds atrocious, and there'll probably be a long messy transition to the point where our internet bill is more like our electric bill. But imagine this: on mobile networks, instead of voice minutes, text messages, data caps, fees for tethering, and every other scheme the Telcos are concocting right now (with regard…

Metering only makes sense if the costs vary with usage. In the case of DSL, the vast majority of the cost is the cost of maintaining the copper pair to your house, and that cost largely doesn't change, regardless of usage.

Now, if the line from the CO (where the DSL terminates) to the internet was a significant bit of the cost, I'd agree with you. But my understanding is that the line from the CO to the 'net is a very small cost compared to the cost of all those copper pairs.

You also have a point when it comes to shared-loop technologies like cable. Metering is probably the most fair way to decide who gets what percentage of the limited fixed loop. (and probably the best way to get the telco to add more capacity when a loop becomes overloaded)

I'm just saying, the last-mile has many situations where running the connection, regardless of how much you use that connection, dominates the cost. And in those cases, "unlimited" (up to your port speed) billing makes a whole lot of sense.

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#118

Post by gyom »

samatman wrote: post #56
wildmXranat wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Most online services that have a presence in Canadian market will start to see cuts in their revenue. I was using NetFlix, but no longer. Many of my friends and co-workers are not using Dropbox for backup anymore. It makes no sense. Many went back to good old fashioned portable drives. In addition to purchasing less of online services, many people that I know refuse to buy anything from Bell and Rogers. No cable…

A total OT, but is "pardon my French" at all PC in Canada? Serious question!

I'm a French Canadian guy working in an English workplace and I feel a bit insulted whenever I hear this expression. I never hear anyone complain about it, but it makes me want to start saying "pardon my English" right after belching loudly (on purpose for that occasion).

The only thing keeping me from doing that is that I don't think people would make the connection and understand the reference.

I don't know how Jews feel when they hear someone say that they've been "jewed" by their ISP or some other company ripping them off. Probably something like that.

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#119

Post by sedachv »

Canadians can sign a petition that also purports to send email on your behalf to the CRTC:

http://openmedia.ca/meter

I've been considering not getting Internet at my new place when I move (which is coincidentally the end of the month, when this regulation takes effect) for productivity reasons, and this cements the decision. I've been pretty happy as a Teksavvy customer otherwise.

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#120

Post by russell »

yoyar wrote: post #14
coryl wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh, not quite socialist, very much capitalist. This is poor regulation of a growing industry monopolized by the huge corps that own cable and phoneline infrastructure. They've somehow lobbied and convinced our government to allow them to charge us up the ass for 'overages'.

This is why I wrote the comment in the manner that I did. There is an ongoing confusion about what is the free market and what is corporatism/fascism. The free market provides for free competition between individuals where all transactions are voluntary and no force is used to interfere with any interactions between parties. In a corporatist/fascist environment the government uses force to interfere in nearly all asp…

I agree with you, yoyar, but the use of fascism is so overloaded with historical emotion that it weakens your argument. Corporatism != fascism. Fascism adds to corporatism religious intolerance, racism, denial of freedom of expression, denial of due process, etc. While we can see individuals in power espousing elements of fascism, thankfully we havent gone there yet.
Post reply on HN