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Lockout-Tagout

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Re: Lockout-Tagout

#111

Side note: The most secure locks that Master makes (in regards to being pick resistant) are their LOTO padlocks, and they are usually about $10. Most of their other consumer locks are pretty easy to bypass with basic picks, but get marketed as being the "best" in security and cost a lot more.

That is ironic since security isn't even the real point of the locks - just providing enough resistance that it can't be done unconsciously and any "accident" is beyond negligence if they were locked out and it was meddled with.

Actually, I suspect it is very deliberate.

For normal master lock key padlocks, it is not a big deal if it accidentally unlocks with somebody else's key.

Their normal cores are shitty enough that even a regular key has a reasonable chance of acting like a bump key, so if you insert the wrong key quickly and turn, it might just open.

With LOTO locks, Bob could die if Alice's key works on Bob's lock. (e.g. both on working on equipment powered by different circuit breaks, and Alice confuses the breakers, and removes the lock from BOB's breaker, because her key happened to work on it).

A few reports of that happening, and their LOTO locks could be banned from many worksites due to unions insisting on it.

Now to be clear, the master LOTO locks offer basically zero physical security, since they can be very easily destroyed or bypassed. But to my knowledge, no master branded lock offers any real security, so that is hardly surprising.

Re: Lockout-Tagout

#112
post #25
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend watching LockPickingLawyer's video on the lock the parent comment is talking about: https://youtu.be/y4XGY0_cwcM . Master used a very pick resistant core for their LOTO locks but skimped out on the higher priced general-use models.

That is baffling as he says in the video! I’ve never seen anyone on any worksite I’ve been on trying to pick a LO/TO lock, so I just assumed the cores were just as insubstantial.

I suspect it is very deliberate.

Their normal cores are so shitty that there is a reasonable chance that the wrong key will work to open the lock, especially if somebody is trying to open it quickly.

With LOTO locks, Bob could die if Alice's key works on Bob's lock. (e.g. both on working on equipment powered by different circuit breaks, and Alice confuses the breakers, and removes the lock from BOB's breaker, because her key happened to work on it).

A few reports of that happening, and their LOTO locks could be banned from many worksites due to unions rightfully insisting on it.

So it actually is worth having better cores to ensure only the correct keys will work.

Re: Lockout-Tagout

#113
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple answer: close the breaker box lid and put a cheap padlock on it. You don't need a tag or special clip. That ensures that your wife or roommate doesn't try to flip the breaker back on while your arm is in the garbage disposal or you are holding the hot wire with your teeth. You can and should use a test light or DVOM to verify the power is out. You can and should treat the wires as if they were "hot" anyhow. Yo…

I uh, have been guilty of similar lack of safety protocols in the distant past. I fortunately learned my lesson by shorting a $900 AC control board and not shocking myself, but needless to say it really is worth taking the time to do it right.

I just zapped myself so hard my hand flew back and got cut on the metal box. Hurt a bit, but it was $900 cheaper than your lesson. :)
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