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Software Updates

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Re: Software Updates

#111

Post by BubRoss »

donatj wrote: post #31

I’ve been running Navicat 11 and 12 side by side for almost a year because of missing features and a wrecked UI, with the newer version supporting newer MariaDB features. I just received a new work laptop and the license for 11 refused to deactivate, so I can’t activate it on my new Laptop. Usually IT or whoever would contact support but with a couple buyouts under us it was licensed to a company that no longer exist…

I think a lot of developers don't realize that features and functionality are only a part of a program. Many times what a program like that accomplishes is somewhat trivial and the interface is the whole point. Redesigning an interface is basically redoing the most fundamental part of the program. The design is why people use it.

Re: Software Updates

#112

Post by sangnoir »

theandrewbailey wrote: post #65
nickjj wrote: post #42

2 Windows programs that I've been using for ~15 years have done a great job at avoiding the abyss. They would be IrfanView[0] (image viewer) and foobar2000[1] (mp3 player). Both programs are very minimal and have stayed true to their vision. Using them today feels similar to how it was 5 or even 10 years ago, but at the same time subtle improvements have been made too. Both are still under active development, so it's…

I never stopped using Winamp. I've been whippin that llama for over 20 years.

whipping the llama's ass* - "whipping the llama" sounds like non-sequitur innuendo (:

Re: Software Updates

#113

Post by sambeau »

arghwhat wrote: post #84
sambeau wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. I was trying to point out that ideally you could just leave the old API there for old software to use and build a new API for new software to use. If it wasn't for security bugs you could leave the old API untouched. Sadly, security issues prevent this and after a while it becomes uneconomical to supply even security fixes. This is why hardware that relies on software has a…

And that is exactly my point: API changes are rarely—if ever—caused by security fixes, and thus are not the cause of breakage, despite you attributing the impossibility of stable APIs to it. A fixed piece of software can have a limited lifetime for only two reasons: Dependence on ephemeral infrastructure (e.g. cloud services that disappear or change), and assumptions that fail over time (e.g. "the device will never b…

I was not trying say that security fixes cause breakages. I was trying to suggest that security fixes cost money and therefore old APIs would get withdrawn for monetary reasons (if they weren't simply replaced by something new and shiny which is the usual reason).

If old APIs required no maintenance it would be fairly simple to leave them around.

However, APIs are built on an ever deeper stack of APIs that go all the way back to the Operating system and through internet protocols (APIs) right across the internet. Each API gets updates and fixes and things get deprecated. Bit-rot sets in and things stop working.

My original comment was suggesting that if everyone just left their old APIs around forever then the world would be filled with unpatched APIs with security flaws and I was not sure that would be a better place to be than the world of bit-rot that we have now.

Re: Software Updates

#114

Post by tomjen3 »

buboard wrote: post #36

Things i tried to keep using way longer than most: -windows 7 (upgraded only for widi support - and i miss them) - skype (i d never upgrade if i could) - photoshop standalone (still use it) - office 2007 ( still use it) - dropbox (no option there) - old reddit - iphone 6 - jquery (plan to avoid npm until it dies of natural causes) - windows movie maker / photos In fact it s getting harder to think of things that are…

I am still using old.reddit.com Works very well with my RSS reader.

Re: Software Updates

#115

Post by Crinus »

skinnymuch wrote: post #101
Crinus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt age has anything to do with it (unless you imply younger people prefer shitty interfaces) since Reddit's new site is awful even on mobile. I always switch to i.reddit.com not only because it is much faster, but also because the new layout just unusable with somehow combining both oversized (even for mobile standards) elements and tiny elements all over the place, needing a ton of taps to just read comments (w…

I have yet to come across a normal friend who doesn’t think HN is a super ugly site which essentially means if they had interest in the site, they prob wouldn’t use it. All the HN comments here about Reddit are talking about how they feel and their bubble feels. Which I personally agree with. But I’m not representative of every day user.

There is no such thing as "every day user" though, every user is different and if anything a major source of those UX issues people have is "designers" who come up with imaginary "every day users" (usually to justify their own preferences) instead of performing actual usability tests on real users (and accepting when their ideas are bad or wrong) or just sticking with things that we already know that works and perhaps tweaking them (but again accept when they screw up and users say so and revert their changes instead of doubling down on them).

Re: Software Updates

#116

Post by Crinus »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #110
Crinus wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and cause applications using them to stop working.

What's more important here? Nebulous security threats or software that actually works?

Software that actually works of course, but that only happens with stable APIs, ABIs and certainly not with removing them no matter how planned and preannounced that might be (both because most will ignore things since what they do already works and doing something different just to get the same results is most of the time a waste of time but also because in many cases the software is simply not possible to upgrade/change due to other issues, including the developer not existing anymore).

Re: Software Updates

#117

Post by michaelbuckbee »

pmontra wrote: post #106
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of these are "power" vs "everyday" user optimizations. The one that jumps out to me is Skype. I had read some case studies of their redesign where they stated that 90%+ of Skype users only have two or three Skype contacts, and they use it to talk to their family members. The redesign optimized for that and as a result you, I and everyone else with hundreds of contacts lost our collective minds. I 100% get that i…

Ok, that could be the reason but I'd had appreciated if they were honest to tell us, the people that (used to) use Skype for work "thank you, we don't want you anymore, go find some other tool."

Note that Skype has now split into "Skype for Business" (whic is it's own form of weirdness in Office 365) and then normal Skype which is for the family/individuals.

Re: Software Updates

#118

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #77
s9w wrote: post #17

Software getting worse, just out of my head: - VS2019 removed at least two important features from VS2017 (export of profiler results and the concurrency profiler) - Firefox "new" extension API still means you can't remove the top tab bar from tree style tabs (best FF extension) without hacks - Current Dropbox versions are incredibly invasive. They popup when opening a word document. When pluggin in my Camera. And no…

Some of these are "power" vs "everyday" user optimizations. The one that jumps out to me is Skype. I had read some case studies of their redesign where they stated that 90%+ of Skype users only have two or three Skype contacts, and they use it to talk to their family members. The redesign optimized for that and as a result you, I and everyone else with hundreds of contacts lost our collective minds. I 100% get that i…

Why not make the software flexible enough that the user can conform it to their own needs?

Let me guess: too much trouble for a developer to implement and maintain.

Re: Software Updates

#119

Post by Crinus »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #99
Crinus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand how the "modern" Windows start menu works they introduced in Win 8 I think. The current start menu was introduced in Windows 10 though even the initial 10 version was a bit different. Windows 8 had a "start screen" where there were only tiles (that are now at the side) and took the entire screen. Because the Windows 8 start screen and the initial Windows 10 start menu strongly deemphasized folder…

Linux Desktop launchers are much, much worse I think, if only because .desktop files are among the stupidest things ever designed.

.desktop files are just the equivalent to Windows .lnk files, if anything they can contain additional metadata. The issue is the DEs that use them (and not all are of the same bad quality).

If anything i'd say that .desktop files are among the few things that Free Desktop got right (though i think that is largely because they're basically KDE1's .kdelnk or whatever they were called).

Re: Software Updates

#120

Post by mook »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #10
hs86 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure if this is good or bad. On the one hand it gives hardware vendors an incentive to contribute their drivers directly into their kernel but on the other hand most Android phones are now restricted to one old kernel version due to the lack of ongoing support from SoC vendors. I assume that the majority of Linux kernels are running on Android phones and due to this lack of stable ABI for drivers these kerne…

> I assume that the majority of Linux kernels are running on Android phones and due to this lack of stable ABI for drivers these kernels are all outdated or even unmaintained. No, it's because the hardware manufacturers won't upstream their drivers. All they have to do is send the code licensed under GPLv2 and it will be updated and maintained. Stable ABI for drivers will result in the Windows situation: hardware ven…

> No, it's because the hardware manufacturers won't upstream their drivers. All they have to do is send the code licensed under GPLv2 and it will be updated and maintained.

You probably know this, but that's most definitely not true. After they get their code correctly licensed, they still have to get the code up to the standards of the mainline kernel, get it through reviews, plus at least act like they intend to maintain it. Probably actually do that too, if you want any future changes to go in.

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