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You can fool some of the people, all of the time

economist.com

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Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time

#111

Post by grawprog »

sputr wrote: post #26
buboard wrote: post #10

My pet theory is that democracy is more tolerable because it alternates between incompetent people fast enough to keep people's hopes alive.

Democracy is nothing more than a system that replaces swords/bullets with votes. That's it. The fight for power (aka. resources) it inescapable and the only thing that democracy did, was to change the field that this fight is fought on. Democracy is more tolerable because no people die (in the open) when the landscape of power changes. The only two benefits of democracy to "the people" are: (1) the fact that they hav…

>Democracy is more tolerable because no people die (in the open) when the landscape of power changes.

Tell that to the family of a friend's friend that was ambushed and decapitated in the middle of the night by an opposing political party because they made statements denouncing a political party during elections in a Democratic country.

ETA:News story to clarify what I'm talking about.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/29/world/asia/philippines-ne...

Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time

#112

Post by mbillie1 »

lucian1900 wrote: post #91
numinary1 wrote: post #89

Democracy is ostensibly majority rule (don't nitpick). The majority of people are poor. Therefore, democracy is the rule of the poor (Aristotle). We do not live in a democracy.

If the poor were truly in charge, why would they choose to remain poor?

I think you're missing what the parent is saying: since the majority are poor, they plainly don't rule (since then they wouldn't remain poor). If democracy is defined as "majority rule," and we plainly see that the majority in the US do NOT rule, then the US is not a democracy.

Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time

#113

Post by wufufufu »

sputr wrote: post #26
buboard wrote: post #10

My pet theory is that democracy is more tolerable because it alternates between incompetent people fast enough to keep people's hopes alive.

Democracy is nothing more than a system that replaces swords/bullets with votes. That's it. The fight for power (aka. resources) it inescapable and the only thing that democracy did, was to change the field that this fight is fought on. Democracy is more tolerable because no people die (in the open) when the landscape of power changes. The only two benefits of democracy to "the people" are: (1) the fact that they hav…

> Democracy is nothing more than a system that replaces swords/bullets with votes. That's it.

Why stop at bullets, why don't you say aircraft carriers or something

Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time

#114

Post by xenyal »

grawprog wrote: post #111
sputr wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy is nothing more than a system that replaces swords/bullets with votes. That's it. The fight for power (aka. resources) it inescapable and the only thing that democracy did, was to change the field that this fight is fought on. Democracy is more tolerable because no people die (in the open) when the landscape of power changes. The only two benefits of democracy to "the people" are: (1) the fact that they hav…

>Democracy is more tolerable because no people die (in the open) when the landscape of power changes. Tell that to the family of a friend's friend that was ambushed and decapitated in the middle of the night by an opposing political party because they made statements denouncing a political party during elections in a Democratic country. ETA:News story to clarify what I'm talking about. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07…

TIL Philippines is a democratic country

Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time

#115

Post by xenyal »

FrankyHollywood wrote: post #49
sputr wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy is nothing more than a system that replaces swords/bullets with votes. That's it. The fight for power (aka. resources) it inescapable and the only thing that democracy did, was to change the field that this fight is fought on. Democracy is more tolerable because no people die (in the open) when the landscape of power changes. The only two benefits of democracy to "the people" are: (1) the fact that they hav…

"The only two benefits of democracy..." In my opinion the one major benefit of democracy over all other forms is that a terrible leader can be voted away within 4 years. It's a political system with garbage collection :)

What if there aren't any terrible leaders per se, just that none of the leaders feel 'right'? What if the leaders that replace them in the next election cycle also lack voter confidence?

Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time

#116

Post by xenyal »

lexandstuff wrote: post #41
sputr wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy is nothing more than a system that replaces swords/bullets with votes. That's it. The fight for power (aka. resources) it inescapable and the only thing that democracy did, was to change the field that this fight is fought on. Democracy is more tolerable because no people die (in the open) when the landscape of power changes. The only two benefits of democracy to "the people" are: (1) the fact that they hav…

Getting a vote instead of a bullet to the head seems like a pretty significant upgrade to me.

If that's the argument it comes down to for electoral governments, I'd say that's quite sad.

Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time

#117

Post by excalibur »

1_person wrote: post #110
excalibur wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A micro-imposition, if you will. No sir, I certainly will not. > If you do not resist an imposition of will, you consent. Thousands of victims of date-rape drugs say you're wrong.

I believe in this case it's reasonable to interpret the past imposition as a statement of future intent and resist by proportional means. Discontinue consumption of substances offered to you by someone who has previously intoxicated you without your consent. Use violence as necessary to resist being coerced into consumption in proportion to the degree being intoxicated and used for gratification inhibits your surviva…

> If you do not resist an imposition of will, you consent.

> Discontinue consumption of substances offered to you by someone who has previously intoxicated you without your consent.

So you agree there wasn't consent the first time. Sounds like refuting yourself to me.

Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time

#118

Post by kbutler »

numinary1 wrote: post #89

Democracy is ostensibly majority rule (don't nitpick). The majority of people are poor. Therefore, democracy is the rule of the poor (Aristotle). We do not live in a democracy.

You'd have to define "poor".

If you look at the progress of the poor in the US over the last 200 years, they're doing really, really well.

Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time

#119

Post by XorNot »

randcraw wrote: post #107

I think the rise of lies has little to do with humans being hardwired to resolve questions using emotions over reason. We prefer lies because we want a complex world to be simple, predictable, and manageable. Obviously it's not, so the only way that powerless people can believe their lives aren't spinning out of control is for authority figures to tell them what they want to hear: 1) every problem is simple and 2) a…

3) Bad things don't happen for no reason. "They" do it.
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