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Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#111

Post by LeifCarrotson »

ryanmercer wrote: post #92
_hn_throw_away wrote: post #12

(This is a duplicate of a story posted this past weekend. I want to copy my comment from it for greater visibility.) Fuck everything about 5 day work weeks. I'll gladly switch to any job that offers a 4 day work week. It's one of the best perks. As someone with ADHD, work days are entirely spent getting work done. There isn't any extra slack or allotment for personal tasks. They're 100% owned by the employer. Weekend…

>I don't want to spend most of my life working. I feel like a slave I've never understood this line of thinking. Providing for yourself is being a contributing member of the species, work is a means of providing for yourself. For all of human history you've either had to get up every day and go be productive bringing resources in or you had to depend upon someone else to do it for you. I see this "working is slavery"…

I am overwhelmingly more productive and valuable now as a specialized, highly educated, experienced engineer than I would have been as a subsistence farmer. As a result of my efforts and the efforts of the rest of society, I have a much higher standard of living.

However, I can't truly pick when I want to work. There are no jobs in my area that pay 80% of my current rate for the same task done 4 days a week.

If a job was truly an even exchange of value between employer and employee, I would expect to see some people working 7 days a week and making 40% more than me, and some people working 3 day weeks and making 40% less. But aside from service workers with work on nights, weekends, and holidays, everyone in my city went to work in the dark this morning and will go home in the dark tonight.

I am not against trading labor for money - that's the point of a job. I am against trading freedom plus labor for money.

Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#113

Post by macspoofing »

_hn_throw_away wrote: post #12

(This is a duplicate of a story posted this past weekend. I want to copy my comment from it for greater visibility.) Fuck everything about 5 day work weeks. I'll gladly switch to any job that offers a 4 day work week. It's one of the best perks. As someone with ADHD, work days are entirely spent getting work done. There isn't any extra slack or allotment for personal tasks. They're 100% owned by the employer. Weekend…

>I don't want to spend most of my life working. I feel like a slave, and now my youth is almost gone.

That's a first-world problem if I ever saw one.

You're going to work most of your life because if you don't somebody else will have to support you. Very few people can provide for their lifestyle without working (it can be done, but it can be very hard and would require a sacrifice of some of the comforts of modern-day).

And yes, you can do 4-day work-weeks. Become a contractor and then you can set your own hours and your own schedule though you'll have to find your customers.

>Weekends offer barely enough time to catch up with chores. There isn't enough time both to catch up and still have fun. I use vacation time to catch up on chores, so that's spent too

Please don't tell me you're single because if you're single or in a relationship without children, you can easily get caught up on your 'chores'.

Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#114

Post by clarry »

westoque wrote: post #6
notus wrote: post #2

> In contrast, Jack Ma, co-founder of Chinese online shopping giant Alibaba, has championed 12-hour working days. In April 2019, he described the "996" pattern, in which workers do 09:00-21:00 shifts, six days a week, as "a blessing". Yikes, that sounds depressing. > A report commissioned by the Labour Party in the UK suggested a four-day working week would be "unrealistic". The report seems to be missing the point o…

I believe the 4 hour work week only works for brain intensive tasks where it needs significant mental effort to get things done so ample time for rest is needed to be “refreshed”. Meanwhile, if you’re building on shoes in a shoe factory, there should be a very predictable output for people working on 4 days vs 5 days. I don’t condone people to be overworking but that’s just my take.

Have you actually built shoes in a shoe factory?

Long days of dull and repetitive work, day after day, week after week, month after month, can be super exhausting mentally as well as physically. And it does show in terms of productivity. You're right, the output might be very predictable but it doesn't mean people aren't more productive and motivated when they feel more rested and less exhausted/tired/bored.

I'm a skilled machinist. And I couldn't even pretend that a full day of work didn't make me feel exhausted or that I didn't get tired and feel productivity & attentiveness taper off with time. Observing the coffee breaks when managers aren't around is enough evidence that most employees seem prone to feel the burden of long days at work. People find ways to avoid working too much -- coffee breaks, bathroom breaks, etc. I don't think it's just laziness. I would prefer to spend less time doing more focused work, stretching out a long day is always painful.

Now I work an IT job and am generally more energetic, but I would still prefer to have more time & energy left for my own life and ambitions (which work probably won't ever satisfy).

Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#115

Post by ryanmercer »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #111
ryanmercer wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't want to spend most of my life working. I feel like a slave I've never understood this line of thinking. Providing for yourself is being a contributing member of the species, work is a means of providing for yourself. For all of human history you've either had to get up every day and go be productive bringing resources in or you had to depend upon someone else to do it for you. I see this "working is slavery"…

I am overwhelmingly more productive and valuable now as a specialized, highly educated, experienced engineer than I would have been as a subsistence farmer. As a result of my efforts and the efforts of the rest of society, I have a much higher standard of living. However, I can't truly pick when I want to work. There are no jobs in my area that pay 80% of my current rate for the same task done 4 days a week. If a job…

>I am overwhelmingly more productive and valuable now as a specialized, highly educated, experienced engineer than I would have been as a subsistence farmer.

I've got some news for you, many manual labor jobs aren't just picking up a shovel and digging a hole or picking up a box and setting it back down.

Your first sentence, to me, reads "I'm more valuable than you because I know thing, so I want more resources for less effort".

Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#116

Post by agentultra »

sedatk wrote: post #97
agentultra wrote: post #48

I'm not surprised. The only empirical evidence we have for a practice that increases productivity and reduces errors, across all forms of knowledge-based work, is sleep and low stress. As I understand it the only reason we have a 5-day, 8-hour work week is because North American rail workers' labor unions struck for it. Because workers, over tired, were losing limbs and dying on the job. It's not because it's the opt…

Wasn’t it Amalgamated Clothing Workers Union of America?

It was long fought for and many parties were involved. I'm a little light in reading on the subject but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day#United_States seems fairly thorough.

Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#117

Post by JJMcJ »

_hn_throw_away wrote: post #12

(This is a duplicate of a story posted this past weekend. I want to copy my comment from it for greater visibility.) Fuck everything about 5 day work weeks. I'll gladly switch to any job that offers a 4 day work week. It's one of the best perks. As someone with ADHD, work days are entirely spent getting work done. There isn't any extra slack or allotment for personal tasks. They're 100% owned by the employer. Weekend…

Worked 4 x 9 at one job, so only 36 hours. Would have gladly worked 4 x 10 for the joy that having a day off added to my life.

Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#118

Post by pattisapu »

me_me_me wrote: post #9
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s the same reason why most big corps oppose a national healthcare system in the US: it keeps people locked in to their current positions and has the knock-on effect of putting downward pressure on wages and turnover expenses. Is this... true?

One thing that has always came true throughout my life is a phrase: "If you don't know why, its money." Why there is no national healthcare - money, someone makes a ton of it by preventing nationalization of healthcare system. Everything that doesn't make sense, has better alternatives (somehow not adopted) always boils down to money :(

I like that.

Might add a dash of the "prisoner's dilemma."

But then I would get carried away with this stone soup and throw in love, honor, culture...

...and then end up back at "I don't know why."

Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#119

Post by rpiguy »

jonfw wrote: post #91
FrankyHollywood wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another reason is people don't like sharing. In democracies the majority of people don't vote for a program where they have to pay for others, even if the net result would be in their advantage. so it's money, and stupidity :)

Forcing somebody else to "share" against their will isn't really in the spirit of sharing.

Thank you for pointing this out. Forced sharing is confiscation.

Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#120

Post by ciceryadam »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #54
ChrisLomont wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why there is no national healthcare - money, someone makes a ton of it by preventing nationalization of healthcare system It could also be that things cost money, and taxpayers don't want to pay for some things. The Democrats have decided that the rich must pay for it. Republicans have decided that it's too costly. By splitting the crowd, we have reached an impasse. We could do what every other country has done, and…

> Dems want European benefits without European taxes levied on the middle class. Could you give a clearer example? Meaning, say somebody makes $40k/yr, $60k/yr, $80k/yr, $100k/yr in America right now, what would their taxes look like if they were at "European" levels?

In general you can check it here: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=AWCOMP

Example from Prague, Czech Republic = an average IT position has it's total cost of employment (part is payed pre-brutto salary from the employer side) at 55k USD, take home pay is at 30k USD a year.

- this includes a social insurance (if you are let go, you'll get 750 USD up till 5 months of unemployment, if you go by yourself it'll be around 600 USD, and a promise of 1200 usd a month when you retire)

- health insurance on everything but non-diagnosed plastic surgery (like fake boobs and butcheek implants), dental and optician care

- salary insurance during sickness (has to be certified by a doctor, 1-14 day you get 60% of your take-home hourly salary for every workhour you miss, after 2 weeks this changes to 60% of you gross salary counted for every day of sickness (including weekends), after 30 days of sickness it increases to 66%, after 60 days to 72%)

- and of course tax (around 13% of total cost of employment) that pays for public schools, roads, etc

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