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Stripe to move to South San Francisco

sfchronicle.com

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Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#111

Post by traderjane »

baby wrote: post #85
henrikschroder wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But people just kept screaming that he didn't care about homeless JFC, it's not because of a lack of money that SF has a problem with homeless people, and it's not that more money would make the problem magically go away.

It’s a national issue and SF is a symptom. Instead of pushing for healthcare, housing, more aids, and so on, people are just blaming it on mental health.

There are different homeless populations which comprise the greater phenomena, and the mentally ill population is absolutely part of it.

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#112

Post by senko »

AdieuToLogic wrote: post #89
wmf wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like raising prices from 2.9% to 2.93% would cover the tax. (I assume they don't want to go to 3% because that looks like a huge jump.) The real question in my mind is why does Stripe bother to exist if they're barely breaking even.

> The real question in my mind is why does Stripe bother to exist if they're barely breaking even. Stripe has a valuation of $35,000,000,000 USD[0]. The real question I have is how anyone thinks Stripe is "barely breaking even." 0 - https://www.forbes.com/sites/donnafuscaldo/2019/09/19/stripe...

Valuation and profit or loss are not connected (see Uber).

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#113

Post by PopeDotNinja »

chrisseaton wrote: post #105
paxys wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say that's an exaggeration. I know tons of people who commute from the city to south bay and vice versa. Plus South SF is pretty well connected by transit.

No where in the Bay Area is ‘well connected’ by any kind of transit.

Getting to downtown SF isn't too bad if you optimize for it, but in general I agree that getting around takes quite a while.

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#114

Post by nothrabannosir »

nrp wrote: post #71
dmode wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it is gross receipts within the City. The impact is surely negligible

San Francisco has probably the most complex payroll and gross receipts tax system of any city in the world. The calculator you're supposed to use is: https://sftreasurer.org/sites/default/files/2019-08/BT_2019%... The item specifically relevant to Stripe is that it's categorized as a Financial Services rather than Information company. Financial Services companies have to allocate gross receipts based 50% on their pay…

This is significant information, because there’s a whole conversation upthread assuming the gross receipts tax applies to their full business.

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#115

Post by abalone »

This blows, not so much because Stripe is leaving SF, but because it's going just over the border for tax purposes so 100% of employees who live in SF will stay in SF. The company just won't pay their fair share to the city to offset their impact.

The line about this being about space and not taxes is hard to believe.[1] And for good reason. Last year Stripe funded an anti-homeless campaign just $1 shy of the reporting threshold, initially, until they were exposed.[2] That's not something you do if you're proud of sharing your true motivations.

[1] https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/affordable-housing-fee-hike-...

[2] https://missionlocal.org/2018/10/orgy-of-big-money-donations...

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#116

Post by Bombthecat »

paulie_a wrote: post #84
dmode wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is surely exaggerated right ? I know CEOs of large startups who live in mansions in Woodside, Berkeley, Mill Valley etc

My sample size is small but a company that raised 40 million and the CEO is considering leaving sv because his wife need to make rent with a roommate is not a great sign of the real estate. Sv isn't special. People are going to other tech hubs which are sprouting like crazy. Sv was when it made products. But sass can be done anywhere. People are leaving sv and housing prices are the reason. It's going to lead to brai…

I doubt that prices lead to brain drain. Sure there is a guy or two who will walk away. But I know more then a few people who are like: more then 2/3 of my pay to live in the city? No. Problem! Living in the city is super important!

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#117

Post by abalone »

Decade wrote: post #67

What a completely unexpected consequence of the restrictions on office space, spearheaded by John Elberling of TODCO. /s He is now trying to make office space even more restricted, and his allies are working to reduce office space alternatively by raising the fees on office construction. https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/SF-Mayor-SoMa-n... https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2019/10/22/sf-... (Mo…

> working to reduce office space

That's a rather uncharitable characterization. SF is just trying to tie jobs to adequate housing construction. We already have way too few houses, especially low-income housing.[1] Which is what makes Stripe's move here particularly low integrity: they'll have all the housing impact on SF without paying any of the corporate taxes.

From your own source: "A separate economic feasibility study from the City's Office of Economic and Workforce Development found that a range of office projects are 'currently infeasible,' even without a city fee increase. The study did contend that an improvement in market conditions could make a modest fee increase viable."

[1] https://hoodline.com/2019/10/report-sf-adding-equal-numbers-...

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#118

Post by abalone »

darawk wrote: post #107
cjlars wrote: post #5

Articles misses that this is in response to SF's gross receipts tax. Payment processing is an ultra low margin business, no way they can compete while paying ~1% of revenues to the city.

Lol, what? San Francisco taxes revenue of businesses that are there? I had to google it to check because I couldn't believe a city would actually do something that stupid. But it seems its real: https://sftreasurer.org/business/taxes-fees/gross-receipts-t... This is just....staggeringly stupid. It just penalizes low margin businesses, for no reason. How can anyone possibly think this is a good idea?

> This is just....staggeringly stupid. It just penalizes low margin businesses, for no reason. How can anyone possibly think this is a good idea?

You might want to ask sf.citi, the SF tech industry lobbying group who came up with it in 2012. Here's a video of Jack Dorsey campaigning for the gross receipts tax as CEO of Square.[1]

The argument then, of course, was that we shouldn't tax early stage pre-revenue tech companies based on their payroll because it increases their burn rate. Better to wait until they generate revenue and tax that. Help support the growth of new companies so they can bring in more tax revenue in the long run. Or so the argument went.

Now that they're making money and it's time to pay up, of course, they've changed their tune. Suddenly they've discovered that the system they lobbied for and got is "unfair" and they still shouldn't pay taxes.

[1] https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/SF-Citi-video-plugs-...

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#120

Post by harimau777 »

baby wrote: post #85
henrikschroder wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But people just kept screaming that he didn't care about homeless JFC, it's not because of a lack of money that SF has a problem with homeless people, and it's not that more money would make the problem magically go away.

It’s a national issue and SF is a symptom. Instead of pushing for healthcare, housing, more aids, and so on, people are just blaming it on mental health.

I agree with you that homelessness isn't as simple as just saying "mental health".

However, when people talk about homelessness being such a big problem in SF, I think a lot of what they are talking about is the subset of homeless people who are "violently mentally ill". That's something that I saw a lot more of in SF than in cities in the Mid West. By "violently mentally ill" I mean things like:

- Yelling at pedestrians that they are the incarnation of Satan and were going to use their demonic powers to strike them down.

- Using racial slurs for minorities that walked past.

- Purposely invading people's personal space.

I don't know why this would be a greater problem, or a more visible problem, with the homeless in SF compared to other places. Maybe in the Mid West it is difficult for people who are too mentally ill to survive the winter. Maybe other cities use anti-vagrancy laws to round them up.

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