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Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

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Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#111

Post by mathattack »

It’s easy to hate on MBAs, but unethical people are unethical no matter the degree.

My general observation is most people aren’t good with finance or the numbers behind their business. Having a 2nd tier MBA Doesn’t help. People who list MBA after their name rarely have it either. People from top tier MBA programs have a fighting chance. They may not have technical or leadership skills but they can talk the language of business. That helps to get into the C Suite, or sell to the C suite. (If that’s not the goal, it’s a bad degree)

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#112

Post by headmelted »

airstrike wrote: post #87
iamasoftwaredev wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a pedigree that allegedly excludes the dumb rich kids Yeah, it's exclusively for the smarter rich kids.

I don't know. As the son of a High School teacher and an unemployed father from a third world country, I'm probably not what you call "smarter rich kid" yet I went to a top 5 MBA. Many of my classmates came from equally diverse backgrounds and nationalities. I think 30%+ of my class were foreigners. But go on, it's easy to hate on MBAs. It's the one bigoted view everyone is seemingly allowed to have.

It is easy to hate on "prestige" MBAs, but I think it has more to do with there being little to no empirical evidence that it prepares students for business success in the real world.

Also, a lot of people have endured "elite" MBA's entering the workplace into positions of seniority with no prior experience and exactly the results you might expect under the circumstances.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#113

Post by airstrike »

eastWestMath wrote: post #109
airstrike wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of us weren't. You claimed MBAs are exclusively for rich kids. I provided data to refute that baseless claim. The point on how many foreigners there were is just a freebie. I don't know about Harvard MBA students, I didn't go there. But you can go ahead and google each school's class profile. Maybe that info is out there.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

That phrase stopped being witty ages ago. These days it's mostly a low effort comment.

I don't need a plurality of data to counter his claim that MBA's are "exclusively" for rich smart kids.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#114

Post by close04 »

hos234 wrote: post #93
close04 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After working with so many MBAs from prestigious schools I find it very hard to take this kind of title at face value, before seeing the person in action. Most had an MBA at 23 years old, basically jumping straight from university classes to MBA classes with nothing in between. At best the MBA did not bring anything. At worst it made some feel so entitled that they actually performed far worse. I fail to see the adde…

They come knowing certain things that most non biz grads have no clue about. Try getting technical people to do sales or PR or admin work. Of course some are unfit but try hiring 200 people by next quarter to expand sales or launch a new product without MBAs and watch the madness unfold.

The question isn't "biz" or "technical", it's "biz" or "biz plus MBA". That last bit brings no value to a person straight out of university and there's a good chance that by the time they have a chance to use that knowledge it's already lost.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#115

Post by drharby »

vo2maxer wrote: post #73
rswail wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly have no idea about what I know or don't know about MBA programs or my overall experience or career. I'm not saying that the skills taught are not useful, what I'm saying is that the concept of a generalized "business administration" course that somehow qualifies you to run any and all businesses is basically flawed. Management is a skill or craft, not a profession. Harvard's model of case studies is a use…

When I applied for an MBA, Harvard was known for a strong general management program as distinct from Wharton’s more quantitative and finance oriented. I chose the latter precisely because of this emphasis. I entered with years of experience in the medical field, and much older than most students (I did the full time program). Did it help me later with anything? Not really, other than the prestige associated with it…

Hows your selflearning going?

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#116

Post by airstrike »

headmelted wrote: post #112
airstrike wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. As the son of a High School teacher and an unemployed father from a third world country, I'm probably not what you call "smarter rich kid" yet I went to a top 5 MBA. Many of my classmates came from equally diverse backgrounds and nationalities. I think 30%+ of my class were foreigners. But go on, it's easy to hate on MBAs. It's the one bigoted view everyone is seemingly allowed to have.

It is easy to hate on "prestige" MBAs, but I think it has more to do with there being little to no empirical evidence that it prepares students for business success in the real world. Also, a lot of people have endured "elite" MBA's entering the workplace into positions of seniority with no prior experience and exactly the results you might expect under the circumstances.

> little to no empirical evidence that it prepares students for business success in the real world.

I haven't seen much evidence to the contrary, either. All I see is anecdotes from both sides, so I'll give MBAs the benefit of the doubt. Speaking for myself, I am an entirely different person after completing my MBA. I've become an analytical thinker to a fault and maintain my soft skills. Learned a metric shit ton of corporate finance, business strategy and decent macroeconomics.

> Also, a lot of people have endured "elite" MBA's entering the workplace into positions of seniority with no prior experience and exactly the results you might expect under the circumstances.

Shitty people exist everywhere. You don't have the counterfactual to know if those bosses would be even worse without an MBA. Seems to me like that's more of an issue with HR hiring processes than with the intrinsic values of a rigorous MBA program.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#117

Post by Scoundreller »

ethbro wrote: post #110
Scoundreller wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing a masters (or undergrad) in Canada is the backdoor to immigration. Once you graduate, you get an open work permit equal to the length of your program and can then apply for Permanent Residency through “Express Entry” based on your advanced degree and local experience. The desperation for local experience can really suppress wages in some fields. And you don’t need to prove that you’re not taking a position or a…

> The desperation for local experience can really suppress wages in some fields. Isn't that good for the Canadian economy too? I'm sure it's not great for Canadians looking for a job, but access to high-quality talent at below-market rates seems like it would be win/win.

Sure, but the benefits of that aren’t well distributed.

Those that are well-established in their wealth/careers get to double dip at no cost.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#118

Post by airstrike »

bertjk wrote: post #106
airstrike wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really that generalized as you can pick 1 or more majors and focus on what you want to learn most. Not to mention each MBA school has different characteristics, attracting different candidates and campus recruiters. Stanford and Booth couldn't be more different if they tried. MBA graduates are also not fit for running literally any business. The only thing employers know is that if you come from a top 10 MBA…

I can accept the pretty smart part (I've never seen the GMAT but I'll accept it for the sake of argument) but what part of getting an MBA filters for "possessing soft skills, being personable, ready to meet with clients or manage people and probably well-connected"?

There are multiple in-person interviews, your resume has to be pretty balanced (you can't just be a math wiz), you need to show a track record of performing well on the job for 3-5 years prior to your MBA, usually in the form of multiple promotions, which signals you're not terrible to work with. Also helps to have a broad range of interests (including things you like doing for fun) because admission committees don't want to exclusively admit kids who just like to golf and play poker (though many of those do get admitted).

TL;DR Admissions for top MBAs are very holistic, and schools will try their best to create diverse classes made up of well-rounded individuals. Some schools do this better than others, but then again each school is trying to solve for a different outcome and just like hiring, admitting students isn't an exact science.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#119

Post by laurentl »

ameister14 wrote: post #71
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CV fluff is the important bit. I'm willing to bet most MBA students directly from undergrad with no work experience between are only getting an MBA either because: 1) they couldn't get a good high paying job right out of college. and/or 2) they read that an MBA is a good investment, and MBA students on average make $X more per year (without doing their MBA calculations and doing the time discount and opportunity cost…

Well, as to #2, if you get an MBA right out of college it's theoretically more likely to be worth it, simply because the multiplier effect has more years to work with

Actually, it was the first exercise we did in my EMBA finance class :D

Even with an EMBA, which happens later in a career, the NPV is quite positive.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#120

Post by iamasoftwaredev »

airstrike wrote: post #116
headmelted wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easy to hate on "prestige" MBAs, but I think it has more to do with there being little to no empirical evidence that it prepares students for business success in the real world. Also, a lot of people have endured "elite" MBA's entering the workplace into positions of seniority with no prior experience and exactly the results you might expect under the circumstances.

> little to no empirical evidence that it prepares students for business success in the real world. I haven't seen much evidence to the contrary, either. All I see is anecdotes from both sides, so I'll give MBAs the benefit of the doubt. Speaking for myself, I am an entirely different person after completing my MBA. I've become an analytical thinker to a fault and maintain my soft skills. Learned a metric shit ton of…

> so I'll give MBAs the benefit of the doubt

Why, that seems like a rather silly thing to give the benefit of the doubt on. Hiring someone into a high responsibility role based on education rather than experience and proven ability. I don't see why you would do that...

> I am an entirely different person after completing my MBA

ah.

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