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The China Cultural Clash

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111–120 of 379 posts

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#111

I think Western memory about the Opium Wars is a lot weaker than China's. They have a moral defense against any accusation of economic imperialism. Indeed, communism would have never taken hold if the British hadn't done such devastating harm.

What you're arguing is that, since China was previously a victim, China is incapable of being imperial. That's no comfort to countries which are staring down a gauntlet of Western imperialism being replaced with Chinese imperialism.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#112
post #25
post #4

This article frames this as the US vs China, but it's really been the "Western world" vs China. And the western world has been incredibly naive and uncoordinated when it comes to dealing with China. We've all accepted the incredibly one-sided deal, in some kind of idealistic hope that the Chinese would latch on to "western" values of democracy etc just by trading with us. Edit: World -> Western world.

The world vs China? The US, Canada, the EU, and Australia make up less than 20% of the worlds population. India, the many countries of Africa and South and Central America are places I've not heard from on this. And, there is a large population there. Is it the world vs China or the parts of the world we typically listen to vs China?

[deleted]

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#113
post #3

I'm addition to trade and human rights-related issues we should also be talking about the Great Firewall as a protectionist tool. China blocks & throttles European / Western digital services but we allow their tech to be sold here. That's not fair. WTO rules should be updated to address digital censorship.

The WTO/World Bank is an arm of the US State Department. The rules serve to further US diplomatic and corporate interests, not openness or trade.

This could not be farther from the truth. WTO has been subjugated by the Chinese, hence where we are today.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#114

I think Western memory about the Opium Wars is a lot weaker than China's. They have a moral defense against any accusation of economic imperialism. Indeed, communism would have never taken hold if the British hadn't done such devastating harm.

There's no legitimacy to the argument for using events from 150 years ago as a justification for repeating the same crimes against humanity over again today.

By this logic, should Israel have a moral right to put half of German population into gas chambers today because of Hitler?

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#115
post #76
post #17

Attempts by China to leverage market access into self-censorship by U.S. companies should also be treated as trade violations that are subject to retaliation. Thank you, Ben, for this honest appraisal which involves sticking out your neck and perhaps even harming your ability to travel to China or expand your business. Regarding this comment about Apple: And then there is Apple: the company is deeply exposed to China…

> That may be true of manufacturing now, but will it be true 5 years from now? Not even a wildest guess can tell now. As for Vietnam, it's the closes substitute. Demographically, Vietnam is incomparably better off than China. On the level of technical capability it's late nineties China. The few manufacturers venture there only for abundant skilled workforce. Big players like Foxconn and Samsung can build entire citi…

Seeing how Vietnam is also controlled by a single authoritarian party, couldn't it end up the same as china eventually?

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#116
post #17

Attempts by China to leverage market access into self-censorship by U.S. companies should also be treated as trade violations that are subject to retaliation. Thank you, Ben, for this honest appraisal which involves sticking out your neck and perhaps even harming your ability to travel to China or expand your business. Regarding this comment about Apple: And then there is Apple: the company is deeply exposed to China…

Note that Cook became CEO because of his logistics and operations work in China, so there is a lot of legacy to go on. Apple assembles iPhones in Brazil and I believe India now, but these are mostly for high tariff reasons. Much of what goes into an iPhone isn’t made in china (and what is made in China can easily be made elsewhere), but they are mostly made in east Asia, so having assembly done somewhere in the regio…

> Much of what goes into an iPhone isn’t made in china (and what is made in China can easily be made elsewhere), but they are mostly made in east Asia,

For the last years a lot of Apple's supply chain companies were getting visits from their Chinese C-level, with a question if they can think of relocation somewhere else. It's not a secret at all in SZ that Apple is leaving, and not only mainland China, but possibly Foxconn as well. For that reason, it's said that Foxconn now tries to lure them back to Taiwan with "incredible offers."

I know a fair lot of engineers working in both Foxconn plant, as well as Apple itself. It's funny to hear that it would be a company like Apple who would completely ignore the risk of supply chain dependence. From what I heard, for the last 10 years, Apple didn't do anything, but hope for bad things to not to happen.

Their screen glass, a surprisingly high tech product, is made in China by an American company. Their PCB's are locally made. Bodywork and plastics has been outsourced by them since Iphone 4. Some passives are made locally, some come from Taiwan. Most importantly, a point Apple doesn't like to be public about, is that they heavily rely on outsourced and captive engineering in China.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#117

counterpoint: anglo-sphere internet is very hostile towards right-winged content, with the exception of a few special purpose "containment"-websites and social media personalities. but these people are also pretty much ignored. this is defacto censorship, or more accurately, a publication ban.

counter-counterpoint: much right-winged content is associated with hate speech and violence. Further, many users of websites such as this are young and tend to skew more left of center, and therefore will gravitate toward that content anyway.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#118
One could argue that this moment in history being a moment to pause and reflect. If corporations and their officers are forced to confront the question "What is more important: money or values?" and start picking values, then maybe other values like privacy and human rights will get picked along with freedom of speech as part of movement to protect values.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#119
How can we get Tim Cook to make a statement regarding democracy in Hong Kong? Either he refuses, which would be supporting the brutal crackdowns, or he forces China to act as they did like in the NBA case.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#120
post #17

Attempts by China to leverage market access into self-censorship by U.S. companies should also be treated as trade violations that are subject to retaliation. Thank you, Ben, for this honest appraisal which involves sticking out your neck and perhaps even harming your ability to travel to China or expand your business. Regarding this comment about Apple: And then there is Apple: the company is deeply exposed to China…

As China has become increasingly nationalistic, xenophobic, etc recently (foreigners in China are seeing more and more hostility and visits by cops, and minders that follow them and keep tabs) they've been taking their business opportunities to Vietnam, etc. Apple should work to do the same.
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