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Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

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Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#111

Post by xlc0212 »

tanilama wrote: post #80

Libra can be a good idea, but probably not from Facebook. What Facebook lacks among Big Techs the most, is public trust. In an era where anything from Big Techs are meticulously scrutinized, something that seems to aim to bypass government regulation is probably the last thing people want.

What I don’t understand is, the whole point of using blockchain technology is it doesn’t matter who creates it, as long as the code does what it intend to do, there are no trust needed. (Assuming Libra eventually actually become a decentralized network)

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#112

Post by arcturus17 »

ilaksh wrote: post #36
csomar wrote: post #12

Here are some wild predictions I'm making + Many (or potentially all of the backers except Facebook) will withdraw from the alliance. + Facebook/Zuckerberg will defy the gov.s and launch Libra. + Libra might not dominate the world, but it'll be a success (at least a niche success) and it'll eat up some of the marketshare of these financial institutions. I think Zuckerberg has come (or already know) to the realization…

The goal of Libra was not really to compete with Western Union. It was more to compete with real cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, Ethereum, Monero, etc. and it wasn't just Facebook's idea. PayPal, Visa etc. know that real cryptocurrencies are eventually going to put them out of business. That's why they joined in on this fake cryptocurrency. The reason companies are pulling out is probably just because it looks like it…

> PayPal, Visa etc. know that real cryptocurrencies are eventually going to put them out of business.

Are we still pushing this? Last time I checked, once people saw beyond crypto as a get-rich-quick scheme, they lost interest very quickly.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#113

Post by mminer237 »

toast0 wrote: post #65
nikanj wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FB is banking (pun unnintended) on the regulators and goverments being absolutely useless lately. Both AirBnB and Uber built empires on ”What if we just ignore the rules”

The feds can come and shut down all of FB over money transmittal, they don't have to limit the shutdown to only the money parts. That's a huge risk to take. If Uber was shut down for violating taxi rules, they only had an unlicensed taxi business.

Could they? Wouldn't Facebook would only be an investor and Libra would be a separate company?

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#114

Post by democracy »

When Facebook needs to jump on the train of "cryptocurrency" something is wrong with the company and makes me really question their competence... Is it really Zuck behind this idea or just some top manager with ambitions? I still don't understand why they had to shut down "facebook credits" and come up with this crazy idea, when all they had to do to start "facebook credits v2" and that would draw zero attention.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#115

Post by LMYahooTFY »

chank wrote: post #47
ilaksh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal of Libra was not really to compete with Western Union. It was more to compete with real cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, Ethereum, Monero, etc. and it wasn't just Facebook's idea. PayPal, Visa etc. know that real cryptocurrencies are eventually going to put them out of business. That's why they joined in on this fake cryptocurrency. The reason companies are pulling out is probably just because it looks like it…

It's way more complex than that. Pretty much everyone in government and the crypto space doesn't want Libra to succeed under it's current stewardship. The implications are very far reaching. Also, there isn't a single cryptocurrency today that can't be tracked, even ones like Monero.

>Also, there isn't a single cryptocurrency today that can't be tracked, even ones like Monero.

Sure, and the cost of doing so compared to some guy typing queries into their indexed list of every financial transaction in the United States (at minimum) is probably at least one or two orders of magnitude.

If you are someone or know someone to grant you some basic technical knowledge then certainly one or two orders of magnitude higher cost, unless you're a designated terrorist, or someone elected officials talk about executing.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#116

Post by greggman2 »

ineedasername wrote: post #90
csomar wrote: post #12

Here are some wild predictions I'm making + Many (or potentially all of the backers except Facebook) will withdraw from the alliance. + Facebook/Zuckerberg will defy the gov.s and launch Libra. + Libra might not dominate the world, but it'll be a success (at least a niche success) and it'll eat up some of the marketshare of these financial institutions. I think Zuckerberg has come (or already know) to the realization…

">If Libra ignored these rules..." This isn't like Uber silently encroaching on a city's taxi medallion laws with grey-area definitions of "taxi" and "employee". Facebook cannot do something like this without attracting scrutiny at every stage, and as we saw with Robinhood, the financial regulation systems are relatively quick to act. Especially if they "defy govs", then those government's will have every reason to c…

I don't know what Libra's plans are but couldn't Facebook make their own Paypal? What would really be the difference?

I can hold a balance at Paypal. I can pay others and others can pay me. The "crypto" part seems like an implementation detail but otherwise irrelevant.

Note: I'm not saying Facebook should be allowed to make their own Paypal. I'm just curious other than "Facebook scary because big" what other reason would prevent Facebook from making a Paypal clone.

Google has Google Pay, Apple has Apple Pay, why can't Facebook have Facebook Pay. What would really be the difference? Just the part about currency conversion to their own units and back? Is that different from certain game virtual currencies?

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#117

Post by Qworg »

greggman2 wrote: post #116
ineedasername wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

">If Libra ignored these rules..." This isn't like Uber silently encroaching on a city's taxi medallion laws with grey-area definitions of "taxi" and "employee". Facebook cannot do something like this without attracting scrutiny at every stage, and as we saw with Robinhood, the financial regulation systems are relatively quick to act. Especially if they "defy govs", then those government's will have every reason to c…

I don't know what Libra's plans are but couldn't Facebook make their own Paypal? What would really be the difference? I can hold a balance at Paypal. I can pay others and others can pay me. The "crypto" part seems like an implementation detail but otherwise irrelevant. Note: I'm not saying Facebook should be allowed to make their own Paypal. I'm just curious other than "Facebook scary because big" what other reason w…

Nothing prevents them from building PayPal, except the regulatory regime they don't want to ascribe to. Also, the currency conversion to their own units and back relates to the taxability of said currency and the inability to use WoW gold to buy Starbucks. It is a matter of degrees - Facebook could seriously destabilize monetary policy for certain countries and subvert currency controls.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#118

Post by dgzl »

amluto wrote: post #88
colechristensen wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 for the first and second points, but I think it will play out much differently. Facebook will try to defy regulators, but I think the SEC will stomp on them, hard. It will end up a hybrid battle in the courts and Congress between libertarians, a few flavors of privacy advocates, US regulatory concerns, and ultimately land on US power projection concerns. I think the US will eventually shape the law and regulatory…

> Congress isn't going to give that power away to Facebook I would say that Congress shouldn’t give that power to Facebook. Congress isn’t very good at doing anything lately.

Lately?

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#119

Post by alwillis »

colechristensen wrote: post #38
wmf wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the US will eventually shape the law and regulatory environment to prevent the existence of any cryptocurrency with its own valuation - distributed ledgers denominated in central bank currencies will be all that is allowed at the end. Existing SEC/CFTC/FinCen rulings seem to point in a very different direction. They've had many opportunities to shut down Bitcoin and have not done it.

Nobody actually uses bitcoin in the US for anything besides investment speculation and really rare toy applications. It isn't being seen as a threat to anybody's central bank, because for all its enthusiasts and speculators, it hasn't developed into any sort of competition for the existing financial system unless you are doing something really illicit.

It's been a little over 10 years since the first bitcoins were mined and today's market cap is $147,490,754,701. Given that there are now bitcoin investment products like ETFs, some folks have a portion of their 401k's invested in bitcoin.

It certainly will be competition for central banks, especially in countries where the monetary policy is kinda wacky, like Venezuela, where bitcoin is breaking usage records.

Here's an article by a Venezuelan economist: "Bitcoin Has Saved My Family": https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/23/opinion/sunday/venezuela-....

He was only able to feed his family because he kept his money in bitcoin and not in bolívars, which was experiencing daily inflation of 3.5%.

If I recall correctly, early on in the life of Bitcoin, the United States had to infuse $14 trillion into the economy to save the banks and keep the country from going into a depression.

There's only so long people are going to put up with near zero interest rates or negative interest rates in some countries and with a slow down seemingly around the corner, Bitcoin's algorithmic certainly will look pretty good compared to the somewhat irrational economic policies that have been implemented.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#120

Post by manquer »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #19
josephagoss wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments are as untrustworthy as Facebook but more scary as they have a monopoly on violence and can take away your life. The best outcome here is that Libra doesn't launch at all in any capacity.

> Governments are as untrustworthy as Facebook but more scary as they have a monopoly on violence and can take away your life. That’s an extreme and reductionist position - and I feel it’s an incorrect position. The state does not have a monopoly on violence - certainly not in practice, and in most democracies today the state is expressly forbidden from using any kind of physical force (domestically, at least) except…

State has absolute monopoly on legal violence.

Expect for very few exceptions like defending your home , self defence etc, you are even not allowed even show force let alone act violently.

State does not need to use violence in stable democracies they just have make sure ppl know they can to get everyone in line.

Also violence is not always physical. Threatening incarceration/ social humiliation / jail time for parole violations/ job loss and other economic harm etc is common tactic law enforcement employ to get cooperation. Finally the state also offers the candy of lower jail time reduced charges and assorted other incentives for cooperation all of it beneficial because of the harm associated with the alternatives.

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