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It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

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Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#111
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does someone do if they twist their ankle badly and are on crutches for a month?

The same thing they do in Europe, where cars are banned from almost every city center. We manage just fine.

> cars are banned from almost every city center.

In which utopia is this?

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#112

Banning cars, congestion pricing, Uber and taxi surchages, taxing parking spots and rental cars ... under the current NYC political consensus, personal motor vehicles are in the cross-hairs. I actually would support this if it was part of an honest effort to improve transportation and livability in the city, but most of these proposals make it harder to live here, not easier. I suspect the real motivation is a mix of…

> NYC politicians should be focused on how to move the most amount of people, the safest and quickest way, for the cheapest cost.

And the way to do this is with trains and buses, not cars.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#113
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pedestrian zones in German cities habe exceptions for transportation to or from locations inside them. Otherwise, stores in these areas couldn't get their wares etc. This just prevents regular car traffic and creates a safe space for walking. I don't know if the concept can scale tonan area the size of Manhattan. Just the necessary level of traffic would probably add up to to a lot of vehicles entering and leaving. I…

The assumption that cars are the only publicly available cargo carriers would also be ridiculous if cars weren’t so abundant that all other solutions are floored. There’s everything from cargo bicycles to autonomous delivery vehicles that could fill this role.

Well, let's get back to first priniples. You need to be able to transport goods, that is, put them on wheels. Beyond a certain mass, you also need some kind of drive train to move it. Muscles can't produce enough force. And you need the flexibility to reach any address. These are fundamental preconditions without which large cities cannot exist. You need all of this for construction, maintainance and providing basic supplies for people living there and removing their waste. These requirements lead to a system of streets and cars/trucks of some sort.

Modern society uses the same system for individual transportation, which makes it inefficient in densely populated areas. Banning individual car traffic works in cities works because alternatives can be more efficient and they are practical because of the short distances involved.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#114
post #99

The American worldview on (the necessity of) cars is going to be hard to shift, but boy oh boy would it change your country for the better. Sincerely, A European.

When you go to the US you will see that apart from very dense city centers there are a lot of people living pretty far away from the next town with nothing in between. There is no practical way, right now, to live without a car if you are in such a situation.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#115
post #21
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without restricting car ownership Why? This seems like an unnecessary optimization in a city like NYC where the population density already makes it largely unnecessary to own a personal vehicle. I live in SF which is also among the densest cities in USA and in my 5 years here never have I felt like I'd need to own a car. They're inconvenient and expensive. Most of my day-to-day is easier to accomplish on foot becau…

Taking public transportation in the bay area is incredibly stressful. I've had people try to fight me. I've had people threaten to stab me. I've had people smoke meth on the same car as me. Hell, last year one of my friends was robbed at gunpoint on bart. If these services were run by a private company, they would be shut down for safety violations. I much prefer cars because it means I don't have to worry about vagr…

40,000 people die every year in the USA, but you had some people try to fight you?

Over 2 million are injured of disabled by cars, but you had someone threaten you?

A million people every year are killed by car pollution, buy you had someone smoke meth on the same bus?

You issues, while valid, just seem a lot smaller than the problems with cars.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#116
post #52

I think cars should be banned from most densely populated city centers in general. There is a word describing it "Pedestrianization" Reasoning: Cars pollute the air which makes the people living and walking in the city centers sick. Cars pollute with noise. Cars cause pedestrian and bicycle accidents. Its nice for peoples health to be able to walk and run in open areas. Streets which previously was used by cars can b…

> Reasoning: Cars pollute the air which makes the people living and walking in the city centers sick. Cars pollute with noise. Cars cause pedestrian and bicycle accidents. So this means that densely populated areas are not welcome for older people, like the ones who can't really walk as much anymore? Interesting way to discriminate.

There was an allowance for public transport (busses, trams etc)

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#117
post #52

I think cars should be banned from most densely populated city centers in general. There is a word describing it "Pedestrianization" Reasoning: Cars pollute the air which makes the people living and walking in the city centers sick. Cars pollute with noise. Cars cause pedestrian and bicycle accidents. Its nice for peoples health to be able to walk and run in open areas. Streets which previously was used by cars can b…

> Reasoning: Cars pollute the air which makes the people living and walking in the city centers sick. Cars pollute with noise. Cars cause pedestrian and bicycle accidents. So this means that densely populated areas are not welcome for older people, like the ones who can't really walk as much anymore? Interesting way to discriminate.

I have two words for you: mobility scooters.

If you want more words, let's look into "public transportation", "paratransit", "vehicles that are not cars", "walking canes", and "false dichotomy".

In other words, the answer to your question is "no", and the proposed solution is friendlier towards people who are old enough to have difficulty walking (and some of whom maybe shouldn't drive anyway).

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#118

Thats the most selfish idea ever. As a single you can live in on manhattan without any cars sure, but got a family, need to do summer camps in jersey but live in brooklyn. It would make life so much more difficult, and for what? Some wellmeaning but regressive environmentalists who dont need a car. In copenhagen its a disaster imo, and thats a small city. Big cities are big for a reason, a lot of activity. If you wan…

I don't understand the Brooklyn - Jersey rationale, you can already make that trip by car quite easily without needing to drive through Manhattan (eg via Staten Island)

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, though weighted by actual people moved, not per-vehicle. A guess: I'd be very surprised if speeding up the buses doesn't end up a net win here, given the density. In fact I believe that was evaluated in the proposal to make this change, but I haven't read it. I have been reading some preliminary proposals for new bus lanes in Washington, DC, and on the 16th St corridor there (which is less dense than Manhatt…

> I'd be very surprised if speeding up the buses doesn't end up a net win here, given the density. I'm not so sure, especially on 14th street. 14th Street is one of the few east-west streets that has decent crosstown subway service, the L train. Even with faster buses, I suspect it's still faster to hop on the train to get across 14th than to take a bus. But this doesn't have to be an rhetorical argument, it can be c…

The restrictions on 14th Street were literally proposed as a mitigation to the L train upgrade. Have you seen an L platform recently? It's currently struggling to move as many people as it needs to.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#120
post #99

The American worldview on (the necessity of) cars is going to be hard to shift, but boy oh boy would it change your country for the better. Sincerely, A European.

This would necessitate shifting the American worldview on having a quarter acre of land to yourself as opposed to living in a buildings adjacent to one another.
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