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A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

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Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#111

Post by hombre_fatal »

bane wrote: post #94
rusk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the good old "X/Y Problem" [0] Doesn't matter if Y is non-negotiable, or if I've purposely constrained Y, to get a specific answer for a specific technology. How infuriating for a "Questions and Answers" site, to be told when you're asking a question, that the question you're asking is wrong, and that "you should instead have asked ..." I swear to god, the SO mods are the dumbest, most priggish, humourless be…

You see this phenomenon here on HN all the time. Find anybody asking a question or help to figure something out and the first couple answers will likely be "why are you doing it that way?", followed by almost completely useless advice to do something else entirely a completely different way.

We aren't here to just answer your homework question. Why you're doing something is part of the conversation and its context.

It's also part of asking a good question. I don't understand the uproar especially on a Q&A site.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#112

Post by fourthark »

tester347 wrote: post #66
MrStonedOne wrote: post #29

This is natural selection at work. Stack Exchange has become a frustrating site to use. "Closed as duplicate: different and unrelated question" reopen further explaining the question and how its not related "Closed as duplicate: the first question that was immediately closed with no replies" OR! Google around, find SE link on issue, everybody is arguing about why the user wants to do it that why, convinces them to do…

How is that possible that I created like 100 questions on SO/SE over years and 90+% of them weren't closed/marked? Im that lucky or people tend to do not care about quality of their questions and then cry about how SO is bad?

Maybe you have better communication skills than average, happen to include enough code so that people know you are putting in the effort.

IME down/close votes have at least as much to do with soft skills and English proficiency as quality of the underlying question.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#114

Post by ceejayoz »

jordanpg wrote: post #102
ceejayoz wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 90% of the time it is an XY problem, though. A couple clarifying questions and it turns out the OP really needed something much simpler. For example, people who insist they can’t use a Laravel package because of “performance”, but it turns out they just don’t know how the composer autoloader works.

The problem with this is that one of the best way to learn real lessons that stick in this line of work is to do it the hard way first. Being told you’re doing it the hard way and never learning firsthand why is no kind of lesson. These XY answers should contain a mention of Y, if relevant, skip the scolding, and answer the question.

Sometimes, "here's why you're about to accidentally put your head into a wood chipper" is enough to learn a lesson from.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#115

Post by mumblemumble »

fourthark wrote: post #109
apacheCamel wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like there is a lot to be said about this. It could be that a large portion of the tech sector is living up to the stereotypical "arrogant/egotistical/know-it-all" label that we get hit with quite often.

Also an illusion that technical problems are black-and-white, when of course there is a social component which must be balanced with technical accuracy.

I think this is a big part of it. At least some of the questions I see unnecessarily closed, it seems that the complaint is that the community disagrees with the business constraints being imposed on the problem, and would rather close the question than help someone to find a solution that meets their constraints.

It almost seems like "closed as duplicate" needs to be split into "closed: duplicate," and "closed: you should just quit your job instead of solving this problem."

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#116

Post by ceejayoz »

jjoonathan wrote: post #87
ceejayoz wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 90% of the time it is an XY problem, though. A couple clarifying questions and it turns out the OP really needed something much simpler. For example, people who insist they can’t use a Laravel package because of “performance”, but it turns out they just don’t know how the composer autoloader works.

Maybe you frequent a different sample of questions / answers than I do, because by my estimation it's 10% XY-problem and 90% XY-problem-problem.

That's very possible - I've seen a lot of variance between different tags. They're often like little mini-communities.

I saw someone post eleven different questions with almost the same code in a 48 hour period the other day - each time about a tiny specific question but you could tell they were trying to do something (online/offline user detection) via a method that wasn't suited for it.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#117

Post by hombre_fatal »

wokwokwok wrote: post #108
dirkt wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Y actually has an answer - but often enough Y is so convoluted that it just won't work. Asking the poster about X, and offering a solution Y' which will solve X should at least be attempted. If the poster insists on Y, then he'll also have to accept the answer "sorry, you can't do it that way, for the following reasons".

> Asking the poster about X, and offering a solution Y' which will solve X should at least be attempted. No! Goodness me, why is this so difficult? It should not be attempted. That’s an arbitrary expression of your opinion on the poster. If the question can’t be solved in the way it’s asked let it die gracefully with a “no you can’t do it that why” and suck up the down votes when someone comes along and proves yes yo…

Well, I disagree despite the condescension (which isn't as disarming as you think, btw).

Qs on a Q&A site become a sort of permanent record that other people stumble across, not just a wham bam thankya ma'am transaction that only the Q-asker sees. By revealing XY problems, a better service is provided for everyone who stumbles upon the Q.

> Goodness me, why is this so difficult?

Because not everyone agrees with you. This faction war has been going on at SE forever.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#118

Post by thanatropism »

scarejunba wrote: post #11

Every one of these community groups inevitably has some sort of internal political strife of some sort. I've never found any meaning in attempting to engage their politics in any more than the most basic sense. The groups always exaggerate the impact of actions upon the rest of us when it's usually a no-op as far as we're concerned. E.g. Reddit iama had this massive controversy around a Reddit facilitator being fired…

Reddit is one hell of a case study where owners were willing to let a lot of user goodwill burn and came out on top.

Heck, I was one type of user (wrote comments, had a 6+ year account) until things started to change. Years later, I became a mobile user to scroll through the memes because I wanted something to infini-scroll.

The gamble was that whatever was left of the old reddit would be a springboard for a more conventional user-generated content platform. They were right.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#120

Post by vorpalhex »

mieseratte wrote: post #31
goatinaboat wrote: post #9

I have always found Monica Cellio to be a great moderator. If she has been fired then something is deeply wrong over at Stack Exchange.

First manager I've had, great guy and despite his shortcomings I'd work with him again. Straightforward honest guy, did he work well, mentored me well. Then one day he assaulted another coworker in the break room. Someone's on-the-job performance doesn't mean they are always and forever in the right. Given the lack of any concrete evidence posted but lots of hand-wringing and pearl clutching about vague incidences, I…

Aren't you ignoring your own advice by supporting the dismissal of a moderator before the policy they supposedly might break is even in effect?

It seems like SE got rid of a mod because they voiced concerns about an upcoming rule change... comparing that to assaulting someone is a cheap shot.

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