It’s time to start trade wars over the use of antibiotics in healthy livestock instead of starting trade wars for silly protectionism.
There needs to be some kind of sanction.
Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics
111–120 of 122 posts
Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Resistance to antibiotics would take us back to 1900, not to the brink of annihilation. You can't assume that the virulence of bacteria with evolved antibiotic resistance will be like that of the strains that existed in 1900.
There's plenty of evidence at this point, it isn't an assumption.
Not so! MRSA has shown increased virulence as it has become more antibiotic resistant.
Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
That would mean less livestock farming, which means people would have to accept a life with less meat. It's simply not going to happen. Humans are way too arrogant and inflexible to impose the smallest inconvenience on themselves unless faced with tangible, immediately harmful effects. Not to mention the complete shift in the global economy that it would demand. I've been a vegetarian for about 4 years and the cognit…
> I've been a vegetarian for about 4 years and the cognitive dissonance you start to see is remarkable. People claim to love animals and hate animal cruelty through mouthfuls of burger and pork. When you are eating something with eggs from a restaurant [1] do you also not feel discomfort from two contradictory beliefs? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21052043
Eating eggs in a restaurant is not a belief. I'm not going to reply to any more of your comments because: 1. it's clear you're not interested in a dialogue, you've already decided who is right and wrong and you're trying to bait me into a corner; and 2. this has completely derailed from the discussion about antibiotics.
Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I've been a vegetarian for about 4 years and the cognitive dissonance you start to see is remarkable. People claim to love animals and hate animal cruelty through mouthfuls of burger and pork. When you are eating something with eggs from a restaurant [1] do you also not feel discomfort from two contradictory beliefs? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21052043
Eating eggs in a restaurant is not a belief. I'm not going to reply to any more of your comments because: 1. it's clear you're not interested in a dialogue, you've already decided who is right and wrong and you're trying to bait me into a corner; and 2. this has completely derailed from the discussion about antibiotics.
> Eating eggs in a restaurant is not a belief.
That's a very shallow interpretation of what I said. You say that you avoid eating eggs at home, which must originate from a belief. And yet you eat them at a restaurant, so why is there the contradiction?
> you're trying to bait me into a corner
You've done that to yourself; or, I am pointing out where you're not being consistent.
Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Resistance to antibiotics would take us back to 1900, not to the brink of annihilation. You can't assume that the virulence of bacteria with evolved antibiotic resistance will be like that of the strains that existed in 1900.
resistance to atb come and go, if there is no pressure to have defense then its abandoned over not so many generations
Not necessarily. It depends on what's hanging out on the same plasmid as the resistance gene, and if that confers an advantage.
Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Im not sure we've ever been powerfull enough to be truly as in danger as we are now. I mean when the Black Death comes along and mops up 30-60% of a continent's entire population in half a decade, you get a little more respect for how terrifying nature has manifested in history... With that said, we've been two key turns and a button press away from total annihilation since the mid-1950s when the US and Soviets sta…
It is fascinating to see how comfortable we've all become with living under the threat of near-instant nuclear annihilation.
It's easy to slough off things that are overwhelmingly scary when you have effectively 0 leverage to change them.
Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics
#117Well, if course they are. Chinese farmers use antibiotics like candy. Even the stuff that the West considers reserve antibiotics of last resort. There is zero possibility of any Western pressure making them stop. Look also at the CO2 they emit and the plastic they dump in the ocean. The CCP has only two modes, rising living standards by questionable means, and mass die-offs of the population. This is the strategy of…
Of course you can pressure them to slow down, just stop buying their stuff. I recommend watching "The Coming War with China" documentary on Al Jazeera. It has changed my perspective about the US, China, Mao. It's not all black and white, but rather different shades of grey.
Isn't that what we're doing now with all the tariffs? ISTM Xi DGAF. I will definitely check out that documentary, thanks for the recommendation.
Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics
#118Source paper https://science.sciencemag.org/content/365/6459/eaaw1944.ful... >From 2000 to 2018, the proportion of antimicrobial compounds with resistance higher than 50% (P50) increased from 0.15 to 0.41 in chickens and from 0.13 to 0.34 in pigs and plateaued between 0.12 and 0.23 in cattle. >Globally, 73% of all antimicrobials sold on Earth are used in animals raised for food. Jeeeesus. It sure feels like humanity…
You're being driven into mass hysteria by shitty research and a pop-sci bias which only selects for you the absolute worst possibility under the weakest academic standards. Take this paper for example. See figure 2? Those numbers come directly from the trend lines on those figures. But look closely at the data. The shading effectively represents how much data they have each year. In the "Chickens" figure there is a b…
Professors gotta eat too
Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course you can pressure them to slow down, just stop buying their stuff. I recommend watching "The Coming War with China" documentary on Al Jazeera. It has changed my perspective about the US, China, Mao. It's not all black and white, but rather different shades of grey.
Isn't that what we're doing now with all the tariffs? ISTM Xi DGAF. I will definitely check out that documentary, thanks for the recommendation.
Precisely. But your head of state of is also extending the tariff war to friendly nations like Japan and the EU. Although I wouldn't call the EU too friendly with the generalised anti-Trump sentiment in Western Europe and getting too cosy with Russia again, just like nothing ever happened in Crimea. Eastern Europe (except Serbia and maybe Hungary) pretty much backs the US since we had enough of Russia to last for several lifetimes.
Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't that what we're doing now with all the tariffs? ISTM Xi DGAF. I will definitely check out that documentary, thanks for the recommendation.
Precisely. But your head of state of is also extending the tariff war to friendly nations like Japan and the EU. Although I wouldn't call the EU too friendly with the generalised anti-Trump sentiment in Western Europe and getting too cosy with Russia again, just like nothing ever happened in Crimea. Eastern Europe (except Serbia and maybe Hungary) pretty much backs the US since we had enough of Russia to last for sev…
The point is just that the tariffs etc. aren't having the effect predicted above. Chinese policy doesn't seem to have changed in response. Besides we're not importing lots of pork and chicken from China, so banning particular antibiotic practices on imported meat wouldn't have a big effect even if it "worked".