iOS 13’s privacy pop-ups of Facebook data grabs • Hacker News Board

Re: iOS 13’s privacy pop-ups of Facebook data grabs

#111

Post by lstamour » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 11:34 PM UTC

fluffything wrote: post #107

lstamour wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstand, it’s not for playing back audio as such, it’s for detecting when the headphones connect as well as (maybe?) enabling easy set up of speakers with Spotify Connect. Similarly Dropcam had a setup mode via Bluetooth, Google Home as well.

Spotify doesn't care whether your headphones are BT or not. iOS should be doing audio device discovery and notifying the apps that request it when a new device is found. Whether you plug some headphones or use bluetooth or airplay or ... shouldn't matter here.

Apple does do device discovery, but it then lets the app show the device names, in fact it’s a requirement to play audio over Bluetooth and a key usability feature of wireless headphones. If your music app doesn’t tell you which device is connected, you’d potentially be surprised every time you hit the Play button. So I’m 99% sure that Apple outright rejects apps that don’t say if you’re connected to Bluetooth, just as they reject apps that don’t say if you’re online. Bluetooth is also disabled for security purposes (if checked in settings) when the phone is locked, including previously paired devices, so it looks to me like they draw the line between security and privacy pretty well, short of forcing all apps to use the same UI conventions.

Re: iOS 13’s privacy pop-ups of Facebook data grabs

#112

Post by ascagnel_ » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 1:42 AM UTC

lstamour wrote: post #111

fluffything wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spotify doesn't care whether your headphones are BT or not. iOS should be doing audio device discovery and notifying the apps that request it when a new device is found. Whether you plug some headphones or use bluetooth or airplay or ... shouldn't matter here.

Apple does do device discovery, but it then lets the app show the device names, in fact it’s a requirement to play audio over Bluetooth and a key usability feature of wireless headphones. If your music app doesn’t tell you which device is connected, you’d potentially be surprised every time you hit the Play button. So I’m 99% sure that Apple outright rejects apps that don’t say if you’re connected to Bluetooth, just…

That’s 100% on Spotify and how they’re implementing playback. I have Sonos speakers and Bluetooth headphones paired with my iPhone, and Overcast is able to display the selected output without any Bluetooth permission requests.

Spotify Connect is likely why they need a permission request... but the question for me is why they need it on app startup and not a one-time request when starting the Connect pairing process. Good security procedures would have the app requesting as few permissions as possible, for the shortest amount of time.

Re: iOS 13’s privacy pop-ups of Facebook data grabs

#113

Post by makecheck » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 3:12 AM UTC

While this is great, it is really about 12.5 versions too late, isn’t it? Something like a Facebook graph is already huge, and they surely don’t care quite so much if, all these years later, restraints finally come into play for new information?

A far more damaging thing to these social networks would be mega-scale winnowing and chaffing: where OSes and devices basically start to lie through their teeth when apps come calling. I am more than willing to “let” Facebook think that I went to 500 places I’ve never been, and I am willing to let them think I am connected to hundreds of people that I don’t actually know. Let us, please, ruin their entire graph: take what truth they have obtained through questionable means, and pack it with garbage.

Of course, Facebook would also be smart enough to put a timestamp on what they already know so you can’t just give them new garbage. Let these devices give every app and website “old” fake details, as well. For example, let them pretend that three years ago I was at a certain location, or that I was in proximity to a certain person in the year 1999. I’m not so interested in protecting current details, as I am with protecting my entire history of details.

Re: iOS 13’s privacy pop-ups of Facebook data grabs

#114

Post by lstamour » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 6:09 AM UTC

ascagnel_ wrote: post #112

lstamour wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple does do device discovery, but it then lets the app show the device names, in fact it’s a requirement to play audio over Bluetooth and a key usability feature of wireless headphones. If your music app doesn’t tell you which device is connected, you’d potentially be surprised every time you hit the Play button. So I’m 99% sure that Apple outright rejects apps that don’t say if you’re connected to Bluetooth, just…

That’s 100% on Spotify and how they’re implementing playback. I have Sonos speakers and Bluetooth headphones paired with my iPhone, and Overcast is able to display the selected output without any Bluetooth permission requests. Spotify Connect is likely why they need a permission request... but the question for me is why they need it on app startup and not a one-time request when starting the Connect pairing process.…

Again, all I can point to are the instances where I was playing music via Spotify on my Alexa devices and thanks to Spotify connect when I connect my headphones, Spotify starts playing automatically on my headphones. The downside is that occasionally Overcast stops playing because Spotify wants so much to take over and start playing. But it’s hard to say if that’s an iOS beta thing. Similarly, the app still ships for iOS 12 right now, it’s possible the iOS 13 version of the app will have a clearer explanation for the use of Bluetooth.

Re: iOS 13’s privacy pop-ups of Facebook data grabs

#115

Post by switch007 » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 6:51 AM UTC

Tepix wrote: post #10

Tell your non-it friends to uninstall the facebook app and use the web browser interface instead if they want to stay on facebook. Preferably they also block all 3rd party cookies, use an ad-blocker and occasionally delete all cookies and reset their Ad-Id.

I've told my parents multiple times that the Facebook Android app is likely what's causing it to get warm, crash and run slow, and to uninstall it. I get a blank stare every time. You can lead a horse to water...!

Re: iOS 13’s privacy pop-ups of Facebook data grabs

#116

Post by switch007 » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 6:52 AM UTC

codeisawesome wrote: post #97

PSA for People here who are privacy conscious - don't forget to completely turn off Background App Refresh in iOS. For all the talk about privacy, this is my biggest gripe at the moment with iOS that this setting is hidden so well in the Settings app. So many apps send needless information when you don't even use them! I have a pet paranoia that when apps have both Background App Refresh feature as well as Photos acc…

Do you know if disabling it affects messaging apps like WhatsApp?

Re: iOS 13’s privacy pop-ups of Facebook data grabs

#117

Post by boring_twenties » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 7:06 AM UTC

oflannabhra wrote: post #60

kerberos84 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is catching up to Android in privacy ? Good joke :)

WiFi SSID has been behind a location permission gate on Android for several releases

And yet "Phone status and identity" are somehow still one permission like a decade later.

How on earth it occurred to someone in the first place, that determining whether the phone is in use or not and reading the phone #, IMEI, etc. should be the same permission is beyond me.

Re: iOS 13’s privacy pop-ups of Facebook data grabs

#118

Post by codeisawesome » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 9:35 AM UTC

switch007 wrote: post #116

codeisawesome wrote: post #97

PSA for People here who are privacy conscious - don't forget to completely turn off Background App Refresh in iOS. For all the talk about privacy, this is my biggest gripe at the moment with iOS that this setting is hidden so well in the Settings app. So many apps send needless information when you don't even use them! I have a pet paranoia that when apps have both Background App Refresh feature as well as Photos acc…

Do you know if disabling it affects messaging apps like WhatsApp?

I haven't seen any problems. I get my notifications just fine. I think APNS (and the related OS services) operate separately from Background App Refresh? Maybe WhatsApp can use it for some sort of good purpose, but it's not core to my experience so no need to take the risk :D

Re: iOS 13’s privacy pop-ups of Facebook data grabs

#119

Post by pdimitar » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 11:29 AM UTC

switch007 wrote: post #116

codeisawesome wrote: post #97

PSA for People here who are privacy conscious - don't forget to completely turn off Background App Refresh in iOS. For all the talk about privacy, this is my biggest gripe at the moment with iOS that this setting is hidden so well in the Settings app. So many apps send needless information when you don't even use them! I have a pet paranoia that when apps have both Background App Refresh feature as well as Photos acc…

Do you know if disabling it affects messaging apps like WhatsApp?

Never in any messaging apps that I had. Notifications and the ability to wake your device and do work on the background are separate services and they don't affect each other.

You will not miss any notifications if you disable Background App Refresh.

Re: iOS 13’s privacy pop-ups of Facebook data grabs

#120

Post by pdimitar » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 11:37 AM UTC

makecheck wrote: post #113

While this is great, it is really about 12.5 versions too late, isn’t it? Something like a Facebook graph is already huge , and they surely don’t care quite so much if, all these years later, restraints finally come into play for new information? A far more damaging thing to these social networks would be mega-scale winnowing and chaffing: where OSes and devices basically start to lie through their teeth when apps co…

Agreed. While I'm all for ending their undisputed free reign on collecting personal information, I also think their well should be poisoned to the point it becomes useless to them.