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Summer heat killed nearly 1,500 in France, officials say

bbc.com

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Re: Summer heat killed nearly 1,500 in France, officials say

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe more appropriate topic of discussion should be how climate change affects the people of France and what can be done about it That's what Zadkey was doing, though.

Not constructively. Zadkey essentially derided France for being unprepared for a situation for which they had no true context. If you take no issue with Zadkey's comment, then I'd assume you have no issue with the Harvey response.

They're a bit blunt, maybe, but I don't see any derision. They described factually how Texas prepares for their summer heat, and expressed hope that France can do the same now that their climate is changing.

Re: Summer heat killed nearly 1,500 in France, officials say

#112
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shell and EXON buying everyone in France an AC unit so everyone can keep driving cars around is one of the most dystopian ideas I have considered in some time.

If you phrase it as "fossil fuel companies should pay large amounts in taxes and the government should use those taxes to help mitigate the effects of climate change" it changes from dystopian to socialism without missing a beat.

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Re: Summer heat killed nearly 1,500 in France, officials say

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“So you know, a warming of 1 degree Celsius, which is what we’ve seen thus far, can lead to a 10-fold increase in the frequency of 100 degree days in New York City for example,” said Dr. Mann. According to the U.S. Global Change Research Program, since the 1960s the average number of heat waves — defined as two or more consecutive days where daily lows exceeded historical July and August temperatures — in 50 major Am…

This quote by itself doesn't mean much because the definition of heat wave is arbitrary. It could just be a mathematical consequence of moving the mean 1 degree.

So the more informative phrasing is that the same number of heatwaves will happen, but they’ll be one degree warmer.

Re: Summer heat killed nearly 1,500 in France, officials say

#114
post #46
post #34

I live in Texas. The heat wave that France is experienced this summer is like maybe 1 or 2 degrees Fahrenheit hotter than a normal summer for us. Preparedness for summer is deeply ingrained in everyone's minds here. Many Apartment complexes treat issues with AC units as emergency situations, reach out to on-call handymen and give high priority to their fix. In the city of Dallas, city code requires that property owne…

It doesn't make sense to have AC preparedness when it's only used for 1 week out of a year. Also the environmental impact of everyone having an AC, that's not good. In France and the UK hardly any has an AC because it's not really needed. Your suggestion is that they spend billions of dollars for this? Who buys everyone the AC? I lived in PNG which is near the equator and hot. It's not the temperature that's the true…

Air conditioning is better for the environment than heating - if the alternative is living somewhere with cooler summers and colder winters, AC saves energy.

Re: Summer heat killed nearly 1,500 in France, officials say

#115
post #12

> half of those who died were aged over 75 France/Paris has a deeper problem that comes out in these heatwaves. Older people that live alone, with little or no relatives caring for them, and living in flats without air-conditioning, or have low income/pension that they cannot afford an extended heatwave, happen to pass every summer there is a heatwave in Central Europe (which lately is more frequent). I remember hear…

Every year for 10 years, for 1 day, I would work for free and donate my salary to the French state. They had set up a fund to purchase and install air conditioning into the homes of the elderly due to the 2003 heatwave that affected 15,000. And that is literally all I know. The money I earned goes somewhere to do something, supposedly. I'm really starting to feel like I've been defrauded because I also feel not a who…

Any thoughts about the other 118 days you work for free and donate your salary to the French state?

Re: Summer heat killed nearly 1,500 in France, officials say

#116
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would people be able to physically adapt to longer periods of higer temperatures? I mean, it is around 40 degrees every day for most of the two months of hot season where I live. And a lot of people don't have air conditioning. On the hottest days they sit around in the village in the shade, drinking a lot and not moving much. Lots of complaining but we don't hear much about heat related deaths.

We have already physically adapted to different environments. People in Africa can stand higher temperatures. People in Scandinavia can withstand lower temperatures. This is what "races" are, humans adapted to their environments.

I was thinking in the short term, not on evolutionay time scales. Personally, when I moved to the tropics I sweat non-stop for about the first two years. But I seem to have adjusted and don't break much of a sweat until the temperature gets to about the mid 30's. On the other hand, I really feel the cold now when it gets below 20.

Re: Summer heat killed nearly 1,500 in France, officials say

#117
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And all Texas cities basically shut down with any amount of snow or ice. Imagine if there was a blizzard in Houston and some yank was like, “where are their snow plows, snow chains, heavy jackets, insulated pipes, etc?”

This is true. Texas for the most part is not prepared for blizzards or icy conditions. We do not have winter tires, we do not carry snow shovels. There are no snowplows that I have ever seen or heard of. We close schools after 1 to 2 inches of snow, and we put sand on roads. Most people have heavy coats/jackets, but rarely ever wear them. But despite our under-preparedness, not many people die from cold weather in Te…

Arguably, the yearly flu death are related the the winter month weather. People dying from that every year are about factor 10 more then the summer heat deaths.

Re: Summer heat killed nearly 1,500 in France, officials say

#118
post #44
post #34

I live in Texas. The heat wave that France is experienced this summer is like maybe 1 or 2 degrees Fahrenheit hotter than a normal summer for us. Preparedness for summer is deeply ingrained in everyone's minds here. Many Apartment complexes treat issues with AC units as emergency situations, reach out to on-call handymen and give high priority to their fix. In the city of Dallas, city code requires that property owne…

In France it's very very uncommon to have AC.

Its not just France, its an issue across northern/western Europe. Combine that with the difficulty of getting a proper AC installed in a rented house/apartment with normal stone walls and it explains the current lack of AC units. Most landlord will immediately be scared for the buildings substance. The few AC units that you see are those "mobile" devices with a single tube hanging out of a window. Even window units are a rare occasion because of the kind of windows installed across the country. Not to mention regulations stopping renters from changing the outer appearance of the house. I really dont see a viable plan to retrofit living spaces in a reasonable time frame. At this point i would even be doubtful, that there would be enough people capable of doing the job available.

An often overlooked point is also the situation in workplaces, some parts of Europe simply lack the worker protection needed during heatwaves.

I honestly dont see how most countries in Europe could retrofit buildings to a detectable degree, let alone finance it. There are just to many older buildings build for another kind of climate. Providing air conditioned shelters during the weeks of deadly heat sounds like the most realistic option. That would be similar to what is being done in winter to prevent people from freezing to death.

Re: Summer heat killed nearly 1,500 in France, officials say

#119
post #34

I live in Texas. The heat wave that France is experienced this summer is like maybe 1 or 2 degrees Fahrenheit hotter than a normal summer for us. Preparedness for summer is deeply ingrained in everyone's minds here. Many Apartment complexes treat issues with AC units as emergency situations, reach out to on-call handymen and give high priority to their fix. In the city of Dallas, city code requires that property owne…

You have to understand that my apparent is older than Dallas, Installing AC would be very complicated and expensive. Adapting buildings to the changing climate will take time, rushing it could be disastrous to old buildings.

Mandatory AC is not the solution but many other solutions are being deployed. The first massive heatwave happened in 2003, it wasn't as hot as this summer but took us by surprise and caused over 15,000 death in France, around 70,000 in Europe. Compare this to 1,500 death in the record breaking heatwave of this summer.

Re: Summer heat killed nearly 1,500 in France, officials say

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe more appropriate topic of discussion should be how climate change affects the people of France and what can be done about it, instead of chastising them for not having Dallas housing codes.

Heck, cut right to the chase and ask how occasional high peak summer temperatures kill people and what to do about it. An old lady keeling over in an apartment isn't helped a bit by internet climate change wars. Given the super low price of smaller window A/C units, you'd think they'd install a few more of those, maybe it's impractical for some reason. Looking at a chart showing summer highs in Paris since 1900, it w…

>Given the super low price of smaller window A/C units, you'd think they'd install a few more of those, maybe it's impractical for some reason.

In Europe you generally have another kind of window, which you tilt.

https://www.bew24-fenster.de/media/catalog/category/Kat_Kuns...

https://www.plejadium.de/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/kippfens...

Given the construction, you cant conveniently seal an AC in there. Due to the houses being made from stone, you cant easily replace the type of windows. People also generally rent in the cities, so you would have to convince your landlord to let you screw with his outer wall, which is a big no no. Some countries like Germany also dont allow renters to change the outer appearance of a house. This mostly means no satellite dishes hung out of the window, but also no bulky ACs.

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