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Burnout is real – how to avoid it

atlassian.com

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Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#111

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

skizm wrote: post #103

None of this advice really addresses the core issue: people don’t want to be on other people’s schedule nearly all the time for 30+ years of their adult life. It’s relentless and soul crushing. I get 4 weeks off a year, and even if I take them all in a row, the only thing I can think of once my vacation starts is “the clock is ticking till I have to be back in the office.” And that’s always in the back of my mind no…

> My plan now is just to save aggressively until 40 or so, then either lean FIRE...

This is the real answer to preventing burnout: focusing on getting to financial independence starting from the very first day you start your career. There is nothing more liberating and comforting than knowing you don't have to stay at your job one moment longer than you feel like it.

Granted, it's not an option for everyone because of their life circumstances, but it is for most people in the software industry.

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#112

Post by [deleted] »

Balgair wrote: post #74
agloeregrets wrote: post #6

What is funny about this is that Atlasssian’s Jira product is designed for two week “sprints”, a term referring to the idea of running quickly at a rate above a sustainable pace with no intent to keep running after the end. But these sprints normally are done repeatedly with no actual stop or sight of a finish line. Employees just churn through tickets with no designed breathing room or planned downtime. Jira is prob…

Yeah, I'm in the middle of 3 projects right now using sprints as the base time unit. One project is in Sprint #17 this week. One is on Sprint #41 as of Wednesday. One is on Sprint #56 as of this Friday. On top of that, the weekly meeting is set at 4:30pm on Fridays in my time zone. The sprint planning meetings typically go 2 hours. Each project has a daily stand-up too, each lasting about 30-45 minutes. I get about 3…

[deleted]

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#113

Post by qes »

bitL wrote: post #26
vfc1 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had both, and I don't know what is worst to tell you the truth. The ones who have coded a long time ago think that their experience in another language/ecosystem still allows them to estimate tasks in a completely different environment, when in fact it doesn't. The non-technical manager will focus more on the business side and will be easier to manage in many situations, but the problem is that that type fo mana…

I had a manager with a PhD who insisted on never writing multi-threaded applications because when he tried he failed and considered them dangerous. I routinely wrote apps using 10,000+ threads before. Now he is a head of development of some company. Real life is a comedy.

> I routinely wrote apps using 10,000+ threads before.

Running on how many CPU cores? Were you writing code for a supercomputing cluster? Otherwise for what kind of system could 10,000 threads possibly be an ok strategy?

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#114

Post by bitL »

qes wrote: post #113
bitL wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a manager with a PhD who insisted on never writing multi-threaded applications because when he tried he failed and considered them dangerous. I routinely wrote apps using 10,000+ threads before. Now he is a head of development of some company. Real life is a comedy.

> I routinely wrote apps using 10,000+ threads before. Running on how many CPU cores? Were you writing code for a supercomputing cluster? Otherwise for what kind of system could 10,000 threads possibly be an ok strategy?

Bunch of natively 256-thread CPUs, distributed enterprise messaging system (TIBCO-style) in Java (before NIO). It was normal to have 60,000 threads/machine, just debugging was a bit weird. Whole London, Frankfurt and NYC trading was running on the same or similar systems.

Can't wait for 64-core Threadripper to have something similar at home in a little box ;-)

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#115

Post by cjarrett »

vfc1 wrote: post #110
grecy wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Burnout is an inevitable consequence of the modern workplace for a lot of people I agree 100% For me, I found two workable solutions. 1. Get to work at 6am and get a ton done before 8am, or stay after 6pm and get a ton done. I basically write off the hours of 8am-5pm, knowing I'll achieve essentially zero due to meetings, interruptions, 'urgent' emails, etc. 2. Get to work at a normal time, put my stuff on my desk,…

Unless you have the short sleep gene, it's going to be hard to be at the office at 6 AM. This means you wake up at minimum 5 AM probably earlier and would have to be sleeping at 9 PM to get 8 hours sleep, which means being in bed at 8 PM, not doable with kids. Also, you will have the tendency, no matter how early you start, to always leave late anyway, at least that's what happened to me so I would end up getting in…

I arrived at work at msft nearly every day by 730 for the first five years. By the end of year six I was puking in the garage thrice weekly at 9 am due to years of chronic stress, lack of sleep, and caffeine use. It’s taken me about a year, lots of medication, and CBT to get back to being able to sleep regularly for over 6 hours.

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#116

Post by p0nce »

qes wrote: post #113
bitL wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a manager with a PhD who insisted on never writing multi-threaded applications because when he tried he failed and considered them dangerous. I routinely wrote apps using 10,000+ threads before. Now he is a head of development of some company. Real life is a comedy.

> I routinely wrote apps using 10,000+ threads before. Running on how many CPU cores? Were you writing code for a supercomputing cluster? Otherwise for what kind of system could 10,000 threads possibly be an ok strategy?

It can work because when sleeping the only cost is literally the size of the stack (that you can set to a low value).

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#117

Post by mmcnl »

Balgair wrote: post #74
agloeregrets wrote: post #6

What is funny about this is that Atlasssian’s Jira product is designed for two week “sprints”, a term referring to the idea of running quickly at a rate above a sustainable pace with no intent to keep running after the end. But these sprints normally are done repeatedly with no actual stop or sight of a finish line. Employees just churn through tickets with no designed breathing room or planned downtime. Jira is prob…

Yeah, I'm in the middle of 3 projects right now using sprints as the base time unit. One project is in Sprint #17 this week. One is on Sprint #41 as of Wednesday. One is on Sprint #56 as of this Friday. On top of that, the weekly meeting is set at 4:30pm on Fridays in my time zone. The sprint planning meetings typically go 2 hours. Each project has a daily stand-up too, each lasting about 30-45 minutes. I get about 3…

This problem has nothing to do with Jira or agile, but with bad management.

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#118

Post by mikelyons »

andrew_gardener wrote: post #95
mikelyons wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And do what with it? For many of us burnout is tied to depression is tied to lack of a mate, hobby, social circle, life purpose. What outside of work is even worth doing? Seems like all I can think about outside of work is how badly I just want this all to be finished.

Might be stepping out but I think you've already identified quite a few things that can be worked on in order to help yourself out. hobby - honestly just try a bunch of different things for a while and you might be surprised what you like. Take up gardening, hobby games (build/paint miniatures and play 40k, battletech, etc.), hiking, really anything that requires some focus and a bit of work. In a lot of cases its mo…

The first time I heard all of this advice was 20 years ago, and people just repeat it every week for years on end ...

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#119

Post by TuringNYC »

duggan wrote: post #92
ryandrake wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately for every one tech employee willing to set boundaries and say no, there are 10 in line outside the door, resume in hand, willing to say yes and burn themselves out. You can quit in protest but where are you going to go? You’re competing with dozens of talented people straight out of college willing to work 100 hour days for Mountain Dew and a dual screen workstation. Unless you believe the “Shortage Of…

I don't believe for a second that there is an endless supply of capable software engineers. The salaries available to folks of even modest experience simply don't support such an assertion. This problem should be self-correcting. If it's as unproductive as it is unhealthy, then better companies will win by retaining talent for longer.

Even if you are correct, the problem often becomes an inability to identify such talented developers, and many companies don’t even bother.

Also, the best developers rarely come on the market, they go straight from job to job thru good relationships with previous managers and co-workers. Managers who abuse workers are not usually able to retain the best talent, they end up adversely selecting for the least productive talent.

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#120

Post by bigred100 »

ryandrake wrote: post #77
squeaky-clean wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While true, this doesn't have to actually mean being more assertive at your job. I worked at a place where I constantly had to be very up front about my boundaries and work limits. We would plan something, say some certain things can't be done for 2 weeks, and then two days later someone would come back and be like "So... about those tickets, could we actually squeeze them in this week? As well as all the other ticke…

Unfortunately for every one tech employee willing to set boundaries and say no, there are 10 in line outside the door, resume in hand, willing to say yes and burn themselves out. You can quit in protest but where are you going to go? You’re competing with dozens of talented people straight out of college willing to work 100 hour days for Mountain Dew and a dual screen workstation. Unless you believe the “Shortage Of…

Depending on your position this to me reads like paranoid behavior one would expect from someone without many social skills who gets manipulated into fearing for his job when he has realistically one of the most portable and in demand skill sets in the modern markets.
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