Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

vanityfair.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 282 posts

Re: Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

#111

Post by pwinnski »

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #7
PhilWright wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideas are ten a penny but execution is what counts. When it comes to SpaceX, there was no rocket company/government agency creating a reusable rocket. None. Not only that, but no one thought it was even realistically possible. He was ridiculed by senior managers from ULA when he first started trying to do it. I guess they are not laughing so much now. Tesla is interesting because his innovation was to create an elect…

Hyperloop seems to be a great way to move materials. Transporting goods thru a specialized system and getting them out of the highways would help a lot. But it's mostly wishful thinking. BTW, it was Peter Thiel that lead Paypal thru the rough times. Musk was a part of it but he was kicked out before you could say that Paypal was a success.

Transporting goods via a purpose-dedicated system via fixed points without using highways would be great. And it is! America's use of trains to move goods around this country is amazing.

Come to think of it, moving people efficiently is a largely-solved problem given sufficient population density. Hyperloop is just dumb.

Re: Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

#112

Post by Retric »

whatok wrote: post #61
Retric wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Failure is more interesting. The Model 3’s novel UI was extremely risky, but seems to have been acceptable so it’s rarely mentioned. In the end he takes a lot of risks, but it’s only by looking at both successes and failures that you can judge his approach is reasonable.

The number and magnitude of the failures are larger now than there were in the past. Similarly, look at the old SolarCity acquisition thread linked below. The sentiment is completely different. No one cares about a great UI if people's roofs are catching fire. With all the positives and negatives weighed and accounted for, there is simply more negative things going on with the company right now than positive.

I was more saying the Model 3’s terrible UI did not seem to be an issue.

As to success, quietly selling 1/3 as many Model 3’s as Toyota Camry’s is what success looks like. Nobody cheers for the 292,371 car to roll off the assembly plant. It’s simply boring and not really worth talking about outside of boardrooms and climate change projections.

Re: Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

#113

Post by srumino »

jayd16 wrote: post #106
srumino wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hating on Musk is popular these days in large part because it is becoming more and more obvious that he is in many ways a con artist. Look at his recent self-driving car promises, for example. I don't believe that he is so misinformed as to actually believe his own self-driving car promises, so I view his over-promising as deliberate deception.

This is the guy that thought he could build a leading electric car and space company and then did that. You don't think Musk believes he can do anything? He always over-promises but that's not exactly the same as a con artist.

Do I think that Musk actually believes Tesla will have a fully self-driving car by the end of 2020? No.

Re: Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

#114

Post by vkou »

btilly wrote: post #98
smacktoward wrote: post #9

This bit seems pretty damning: > As SolarCity struggled to raise money from institutional investors, it began offering individuals a chance to buy what it called Solar Bonds. (“Now you can get paid while driving the solar revolution,” the marketing material said.) But there were few takers—so other parts of the Musk empire took up the slack. According to the shareholder lawsuit, SpaceX acquired $255 million of the bo…

SpaceX's stated goal is "occupy Mars". Being able to land and deploy solar panels at scale is essential to this goal. And Musk has learned the hard way not to trust third party suppliers that he doesn't control. SpaceX's aspirational goal is to launch something Mars-wards in the 2022 window to identify where the base will be and have some resources. Then send several vehicles and a few people in 2025 to set up a miss…

> And Musk has learned the hard way not to trust third party suppliers that he doesn't control.

1. Does he mine, refine and smelt his own iron and titanium ore, too? Where exactly does that buck stop?

2. Does SpaceX have a sudden pressing need for all the parts, and the debt obligations of SolarCity that have nothing to do with manufacturing solar panels (That is, 100% of the company?) SolarCity doesn't make any of their own panels, you know - they just install them on rooftops, and do financial engineering, and get bailed out by other people's money.

Re: Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

#115

Post by davinic »

admiralspoo wrote: post #2

What are actually Elon Musk's engineering talents? It seems he is not much more than a marketeer. It's not even clear his visions of reusable rockets and electric cars were original...he is known to take credit for subordinate's ideas and achievements.

Musk wasn't even the founder of Tesla, he rewrote the history in order to call himself that.

Re: Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

#116

Post by omnimus »

joering2 wrote: post #109
btilly wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX's stated goal is "occupy Mars". Being able to land and deploy solar panels at scale is essential to this goal. And Musk has learned the hard way not to trust third party suppliers that he doesn't control. SpaceX's aspirational goal is to launch something Mars-wards in the 2022 window to identify where the base will be and have some resources. Then send several vehicles and a few people in 2025 to set up a miss…

Very interesting, but can you elaborate how we could benefit from colonizing Mars? Even more so - how could SpaceX be much more worth by being able to go to Mars, and how others wouldn't be able to achieve similar step sometime after them (depriving SpaceX from exclusivity of operation) Mars is much smaller than Earth with much more hostile environment. I heard some ideas of growing trees or putting air on Mars, but…

You should ask Musk about that. I think he believes that we as humanity need backup plan if anything is to happen to Earth. Also he is probably megalomaniac and thats why he sets to grand goals.

By the way i am pretty sure people who come to Mars in numbers will colonize it and it now it seems that United States will be the country that colonizes and claims Mars.

Re: Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

#117

Post by btilly »

vkou wrote: post #114
btilly wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX's stated goal is "occupy Mars". Being able to land and deploy solar panels at scale is essential to this goal. And Musk has learned the hard way not to trust third party suppliers that he doesn't control. SpaceX's aspirational goal is to launch something Mars-wards in the 2022 window to identify where the base will be and have some resources. Then send several vehicles and a few people in 2025 to set up a miss…

> And Musk has learned the hard way not to trust third party suppliers that he doesn't control. 1. Does he mine, refine and smelt his own iron and titanium ore, too? Where exactly does that buck stop? 2. Does SpaceX have a sudden pressing need for all the parts, and the debt obligations of SolarCity that have nothing to do with manufacturing solar panels (That is, 100% of the company?) SolarCity doesn't make any of t…

As laid out in the article, at the time of the merger, Solar City was indeed trying to get into manufacturing solar panels. That it hasn't worked out doesn't mean that the attempt doesn't fit within SpaceX's goals.

I'm sure that the Boring Company also has investments from SpaceX.

As to mine, refine, etc, he has generally tried to go down to things that he can get off of mass markets. The thing he avoids is having a custom part only intended for him which he is dependent upon another company for.

Re: Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

#118

Post by seem_2211 »

martythemaniak wrote: post #36

Well, Tesla is one long stream of gambles. You dont get to school an established, global, trillion dollar industry without taking risks. The only notable thing here is that hating on Musk is really popular these days. So the failed gambles (this, falcon doors, the initial overautomation of the Model 3 production, etc) will be highlighted and mocked, while the successful gambles will go unmentioned or incorporated as…

Pretty unsurprising really - sure, hating on Musk is popular, but it's mostly a reaction to the fawning uncritical gaze most people give him, and the way he's portrayed as this genius who is amazing at executing.

Elon Musk is great at promising stuff, and then terrible at executing. For every promise he fulfills there are 20 that he doesn't. But sure, the guy who flies private everywhere and shitposts more than I do is "working 100 hour weeks" and "cares for the environment."

Re: Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

#120

Post by chiefalchemist »

One person's "gambled" is often another person's (e.g., entrepreneur)opportunity. Musk and his ilk are where they are for a reason. They don't fear risk, they go toe-to-toe with it and mitigate it.

Words like "gambled" fit a narrative and get attention, but they are also misleading.

Post reply on HN