Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why • Hacker News Board

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#111

Post by 18pfsmt » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 7:17 AM UTC

teekert wrote: post #101

Be carefull with this info, much depends on the factory. In the Netherlands we separate plastic and much cannot be recycled but new techniques and factories are being developed as a results of the constant stream of (at the moment!) worthless plastics. [0] [0] https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/06/18/weg-met-plastic-in-laag...

Polyethylene is rather inert, but our ability to further utilize it beyond a single use is imperative. I grew up with paper grocery bags and glass bottled soda, and plastic was seen as the "green" solution at that time.

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#112

Post by rdl » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 7:20 AM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #106

Reedx wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean c'mon, individually plastic-wrapped apples? It's crazy how much unnecessary packaging there is at the grocery store. But yeah, it is possible to avoid a lot of it. And if you're really dedicated, you can essentially get to zero waste. Here's someone that was able to fit 5 years of their trash into mason jar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT0uqEPzbd0

Been there. Complained about this very thing on HN, and got shot down. Apparently, individually plastic-wrapped fruits exist because of people with motor disabilities. I accept that, and I understand that under our economy, it's better (cheaper) for people with such aliments that these fruits are just another item in grocery stores, and not specialty item in special stores (which would be sold for a much higher price…

I think the pre cut/wrapped apple slices and oranges and such are arguably for disabled people (or children, or convenience, and priced at a 5-10x premium) but the individually wrapped whole fruit, which are sold in much higher volumes, make less sense.

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#113

Post by tasty_freeze » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 7:20 AM UTC

Considering the success of neural network image classifiers, it seems garbage sorting would be a slam dunk application for these reasons:

(1) the training data is readily available. there are human sorters who already are classifying everything in real-time as they pick stuff off the conveyor and move the item to the right bin. train cameras on the conveyor belt and the analyze which items are picked out and which bin they get tossed in.

(2) the NN doesn't have to be anywhere near as accurate as, say, a self-driving car. tune the classifier to minimize false positives. If the resulting NN can classify only 70% of the items, but accurately, that means 70% of the garbage stream can be automated and run 24/7. Humans can still go through the remaining 30% if it economically makes sense.

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#114

Post by 18pfsmt » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 7:22 AM UTC

ImprovedSilence wrote: post #43

Areading314 wrote: post #32

The truth is that plastic generally can't be recycled, and we should stop pretending as such. Consequently it would make sense to tax it and generally discourage its use as much as possible. Polluters get away with overusing plastic packaging precisely because consumers stop caring when they think it can be recycled.

Agreed. Incentivize the correct materials.

One cannot coercively distort the market with government power and expect that life will not, "uh, uh, find a way."

Great intentions do not always lead to great outcomes (often the opposite).

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#115

Post by masklinn » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 7:23 AM UTC

alanbernstein wrote: post #86

Why can't we just package more food items in aluminum? Every time I read about the mess that is recycling, I am reassured that aluminum is the absolute best case material. Why are we only using it for soda cans?

It is somewhat common, but usually as a sub-packaging rather than the main e.g. chocolates are commonly individually wrapped in aluminium foil, it's also commonly used for meal trays (but I guess has become less common due to microwaves?).

Sealed packets are also commonly foiled though mixed with plastic (for e.g. quick-close bits). Dunno how that works out for recycling, just burn out the plastic?

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#116

Post by vfc1 » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 7:35 AM UTC

The US actually sends a lot of its unrecyclable plastic trash in boats across the world to Asia (in return ships that delivered goods), but it's coming back more and more.

Here is a cool video that explains this - Asian Nations Reject Western Trash - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-htnUTN4mH0

For example, for recycling plastic bottles, we are supposed to take the plastic lid off, and even remove the attachment of the lid and separate it from the main plastic body.

Otherwise, the bottle can't actually be recycled. Single use plastics are everywhere where I live and more prevalent than ever: you want to buy 4 peaches at the supermarket? They come in a small plastic box wrapped in a plastic sheet.

The only way is going to be to make it illegal and force people to use paper bags or reusable bags, not only for carrying the groceries but also to separate fruit, use reusable containers for grains, etc.

But it has to be mandatory for everyone in order to make any significant difference.

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#117

Post by 18pfsmt » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 7:38 AM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #62

esotericn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small pack sizes are such a load of shite. Some small number of people are travelling. For the rest, 500g of rice is a pointlessly small amount. It lasts forever, is dense enough to stash, etc.

I’ve seen OJ go from 2L to 1.89, and now 1.75L. Pasta: 1kg to 908g. It’s bullshit.

Juice tastes good, but it removes the fiber from the ingestion of that fructose that tells our body how to digest it. It is not healthful. Juice is basically a refined food, and I prefer raw food.

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#118

Post by masklinn » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 7:43 AM UTC

teekert wrote: post #101

Be carefull with this info, much depends on the factory. In the Netherlands we separate plastic and much cannot be recycled but new techniques and factories are being developed as a results of the constant stream of (at the moment!) worthless plastics. [0] [0] https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/06/18/weg-met-plastic-in-laag...

> Be carefull with this info, much depends on the factory.

Indeed, recently we were looking into getting bio-degradable / compostable cups for an event, however:

* you need "industrial" (high-temperature) composting, your garden's compost pile is not going to work (it will probably degrade over time but very slowly)

* the average collection center can't easily differentiate between bio-degradable and regular plastic (you have to check each cup individually) so they just reject everything

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#119

Post by itronitron » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 7:55 AM UTC

paultopia wrote: post #3

This is LUDICROUS. Recycling is harder than doing your taxes. We desperately need uniformity on this. " BEVERAGE BOTTLES Recyclable. Be sure to remove the plastic film label, which isn’t recyclable. " FFS. Have you ever tried to remove one of those labels? It's impossible. " A bottle with a cap or an opening the same size or smaller than the base of the bottle is probably going to be recyclable. " -- WTF does the siz…

regarding the size of the bottle opening, my understanding is that the automatic sorting machines at the recyclery 'work better' on bottles with a narrow opening because they are easier to push around with jets of air, but they could also be concerned that other items will get trapped inside a wide mouth plastic container and confound the sorting machine...

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#120

Post by Fradow » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 8:03 AM UTC

teekert wrote: post #101

Be carefull with this info, much depends on the factory. In the Netherlands we separate plastic and much cannot be recycled but new techniques and factories are being developed as a results of the constant stream of (at the moment!) worthless plastics. [0] [0] https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/06/18/weg-met-plastic-in-laag...

I concur, everything on that list is recycled curbside in my city, Paris [0].

Those rules can evolve very fast, and unfortunately the communication is lacking. A lot of people still use the rules of several years ago, not recycling things that are now accepted.

There is also an issue on products labels: a lot of them will say something isn't recyclable, while it can be in some cities. Only the most dedicated consumers will be able to correctly understand what they should do.

[0][French] https://www.paris.fr/pages/en-2019-paris-vous-facilite-le-tr...