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Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

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Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#111

Post by blurbleblurble »

hjrnunes wrote: post #84
gtirloni wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem right now in Brazil. Any criticism to the current administration is because "ideology", like that's a valid argument to invalidate anything that's said. The current president thinks there are communists in every corner. The fires are happening, any satellite can confirm that. Easily. The the head of the public institution doing very scientific work to track that got fired because he wasn't a true "…

What people forget is that even if Americans may be divided, they're not sacrificing any of their territorial sovereignty to other countries. Anyone seriously suggesting anything like this be done to America would be met with total annihilation "warnings" from any administration.

I wouldn't be so sure about that...

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#112

Post by newsgremlin »

marmadukester39 wrote: post #101
scarejunba wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want the rainforest to remain, then pay for it to remain. Otherwise, let those who own the rainforest use the rainforest.

Who says any human should “own” a rainforest?

Who says any human should "own" the oil in the ground or the ground itself?

We can't champion private ownership while denying private ownership to others. Especially when you have no control over said land.

It's cliche to blame capitalism, but it is capitalism that has given us a distorted view of the world and of the concept of ownership.

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#113

Post by newsgremlin »

enibundo wrote: post #23
lucasfcosta wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not how it works. This situation is entirely different. You are missing a lot of the nuance here. Brazil is a huge country which supplies many countries with countless commodities and other products. External military intervention would only make the situation worse. This is not how international politics work. I'm definitely not in favour of what has happened in Iraq, but brute-forcing every problem with ext…

I think your logics is flawed here : > external intervention We are all internal to the same world/nature.

Your mixing logic between the issue of a "one world" and a solution that lays in the conceptual boundaries of nationhood.

A world green police sounds great (better than a world oil reserve police atleast) but that requires a world government to come up with the authority and solution that does not result in suffering.

It's not going to work if the country you live in is secluded from the world and is exploiting the resources of the world for the commodities and relative fortune.

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#114

Post by newsgremlin »

If we truly care about nature then Brazil should be made one of the most politically and economically stable countries in the world by the powers of the world.

If that seems like too much effort to give up our own resources to protect the environment then leading world powers should re-evaluate whether its in humanities best interest to have few stable places of living that don't come at the cost of the environment to deal with poverty and suffering.

If you or your country is not stable, the last thing you will be concerned about is the environmental impact on the world.

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#115

Post by PauloManrique »

jeanlucas wrote: post #70
gtirloni wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem right now in Brazil. Any criticism to the current administration is because "ideology", like that's a valid argument to invalidate anything that's said. The current president thinks there are communists in every corner. The fires are happening, any satellite can confirm that. Easily. The the head of the public institution doing very scientific work to track that got fired because he wasn't a true "…

gtirloni, I agree that tying to administration is ridiculous and avoid real criticism. This just bugs me because the rate of deforestation was going up really high in the previous one (that was impeached, but not because of that). The fires are happening, I agree, but I really disagree that there are little wrong facts, mostly people hide important stuff, like the Norway mining I rig, and I really bet you didn't know…

That's because the Norway mining thing is totally irrelevant to the big picture?

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#116

Post by PauloManrique »

newsgremlin wrote: post #114

If we truly care about nature then Brazil should be made one of the most politically and economically stable countries in the world by the powers of the world. If that seems like too much effort to give up our own resources to protect the environment then leading world powers should re-evaluate whether its in humanities best interest to have few stable places of living that don't come at the cost of the environment t…

Your point implies that we need to deflorestate in order to be economically stable. No, our economy is not bad because of the environment, it's bad because of bad decisions of politicians of the past.

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#117

Post by PauloManrique »

vfc1 wrote: post #20

Brasil needs to be heavily sanctioned by the international community, I'm talking Cuba-level stuff if we want to even have a chance at stopping the rise above 2 degrees, we only have 12 years which means that it's already probably too late. More worrying is the rise of populism in the world supported by fake news, ignorance and social media that led to this. How did someone as ignorant as Bolsonaro ever managed to ge…

I'm a Brazilian, and yes, our country needs to be heavily sanctioned until this president wakes up.

Yeah, first world countries made bad decisions in the past, but by 2019 everyone should know better. And he knows it, he just don't give a damn about it.

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#118

Post by scarejunba »

piva00 wrote: post #109
sprafa wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IT is colonialist, patronizing, and evil. The US and the "developed" world have set course for self annihilation and the US in particular has done nothing to solve its own path by leaving the Paris Agreement. But hey let's blame Brasil, easier than solving our own problems.

Why are you so defensive about all of this?

How is this not obvious? Industrialization is a rapid road to prosperity. The West industrialized and is prosperous, and now requires the other countries not take the path they took? It’s never going to happen.

You can’t dump 7 times as much carbon as a Brazilian into the atmosphere and then ask them to cut emissions. Especially when you have the money and resources to be carbon negative and choose not to.

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#119

Post by scarejunba »

onevu wrote: post #6
enibundo wrote: post #2

> 1 hour ago > 0 comments on HN I wonder what would happen if this was a paul graham shitpost. :) Also so sad to see this happening, we are all responsible, it's not Brazil's responsibility, it's World's responsibility to take care of nature.

>we are all responsible, it's not Brazil's responsibility, it's World's responsibility to take care of nature. Eh, no. The part of the Amazon that is in Brazil belongs to Brazil.

And if you want Brazil’s Amazon to sink your carbon, why don’t you pay Brazil to sink your carbon? Or do you want them to do that for free while each of you burn 7 times as much as each of them? Well, good luck with that.

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#120

Post by sprafa »

piva00 wrote: post #109
sprafa wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IT is colonialist, patronizing, and evil. The US and the "developed" world have set course for self annihilation and the US in particular has done nothing to solve its own path by leaving the Paris Agreement. But hey let's blame Brasil, easier than solving our own problems.

Why are you so defensive about all of this?

So defensive? It’s the second time news like this have shown up and it’s the second time people have suggested sanctions. Usually Americans living under a regime that is one of the few countries to pull out of the Paris Agreement. You don’t see a problem with that? Why is Brasil having to shoulder the blame for CO2 mostly produced elsewhere?

There’s a lot that can be done but really it’s the usual thing for me - if you’re going to criticise someone clean up your own house first.

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