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Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

reuters.com

111–120 of 154 posts

Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lukas Walton owned 21% as of the start of the year, more than 3x Vanguard which owns 6.62%. I don't know about the rest of the Walton family - at one point the entire company was Walton owned - but that's nearly $1.5B owned by the company's "Significant Shareholder". I have no idea about the merits of this case but one should note that it's not uncommon for competing companies to sue each other.

"Lukas Walton owned 21% as of the start of the year" Are you sure about that? Do you have an authoritative source? I get zero hits for Lukas among Wal-Mart shareholder disclosures on sec.gov. Jim Walton, by contrast, does show up. Also, Wal-Mart is trading for about $320B, so $1.5B is more like half a percent than twenty percent.

The parent is inferring that Lukas owns a non-insignificant stake of First Solar, a quasi-competitor of Solar City/Telsa, not Walmart themselves.

Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As alleged by Walmart. Failure due to rushed, shoddy work is definitely Tesla's M.O., but Walmart is also not exactly the most credible source, given their history.

It would be incredibly stupid to lie in court documents about Tesla "promised to operate and maintain" since the that is pretty easy to disprove.

Not at all. “On information and belief” is an extremely low standard.

The standard for Tesla getting damages for accusations which don’t ultimately pan out... that’s pretty high.

Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#113
post #17

A Journal of Light Construction editor had a fire in his SolarCity panel set-up as well, and had a hard time getting it sorted out. https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/electrical/solar-panel-fire... and here's a follow-up: https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/electrical/solar-panel-fire...

Didn't Solar City rely on local installation firms?

Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#114
post #17

A Journal of Light Construction editor had a fire in his SolarCity panel set-up as well, and had a hard time getting it sorted out. https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/electrical/solar-panel-fire... and here's a follow-up: https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/electrical/solar-panel-fire...

Didn't Solar City rely on local installation firms?

Sounds like they aren’t vetting them enough, training them enough, or the panels are just hard to install properly.

Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lukas Walton owned 21% as of the start of the year, more than 3x Vanguard which owns 6.62%. I don't know about the rest of the Walton family - at one point the entire company was Walton owned - but that's nearly $1.5B owned by the company's "Significant Shareholder". I have no idea about the merits of this case but one should note that it's not uncommon for competing companies to sue each other.

"Lukas Walton owned 21% as of the start of the year" Are you sure about that? Do you have an authoritative source? I get zero hits for Lukas among Wal-Mart shareholder disclosures on sec.gov. Jim Walton, by contrast, does show up. Also, Wal-Mart is trading for about $320B, so $1.5B is more like half a percent than twenty percent.

They're referring, I believe, to the ownership of FSLR: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/FSLR/ And Walton is at 21%: https://m.marketscreener.com/FIRST-SOLAR-INC-37008/company/

Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#116
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These specific cases, no. But I used to work for a company that made solar components and fires were our biggest fear. The most likely issue is incorrect design or installation due to the complications of DC power. This article goes into details https://iffmag.mdmpublishing.com/solar-panels-and-the-dc-dan... Simply put DC power with enough current to power a home is much more dangerous than AC. And solar power isn't…

Not a solar installer, but who uses thin enough DC wiring that the current rating is an issue? Every solar installation I’ve seen uses way oversized DC wiring (4-6mm^2 for 10-20A closed-circuit current) to minimise losses. You could literally just short the wiring at the inverter and it’d never overheat. Most fire hazard comes from connectors burning out from what I’ve seen.

Well its a lot of things, you could bend the wire beyond its specs for bending radius and in a way that would damage its ability to carry current. You could install it in a way that puts the cables too close together so they then transfer heat to each other and overload the thermal rating of the insulation, thus causing a failure there. You could damage the insulation on the cables leading to water ingress. Proper to code installations which provide plenty of margin to prevent fires are defined mostly by the NFPA 70 (National Fire Protection Act) National Electric Code

You could install the cable in a way the the heating and cooling of the cable, over time, causes it to move or shift (kind of like a snake, generally in the direction of gravity where its on a slant or hanging down) and then cause tension on connectors that wasn't there before, if you didn't properly secure the cables or design with that in mind. This one was an actual issue I know about having happened on some wind turbines.

If you have a really incompetent contractor, maybe they used the aluminum conductors instead of the copper conductors in some places (the former is far cheaper, but has less bending radius and carries less current).

There is a lot to get wrong, most of which I had no idea about until I had to think about it and know the problems in that domain of engineering. Even then, I only did that for a short time so I'm sure there is plenty I don't know.

Most of the issues I heard about though weren't engineering issues, it was poorly trained contractors who had no idea what they were doing. They used contractors especially in the Wind Industry, because of the cyclical nature of the building of power plants. Wind had a tax credit that use to not be a partisan issue, then it became one and congress couldn't get its act together which caused the sudden stop of ordering of wind turbines several times. Then there is the lack of unions in many parts of the country, and unions generally keep their workers sharp by keeping them employed even in down turns by evenly spreading out mandatory furloughs. They also go through rigorous apprenticeships and trainings.

Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#117
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally, like why does Wal-Mart even bother selling items that cost less than a million dollars?

This lawsuit could drag on for years and cost a significant portion of the amount being sued over because the value is so small. Hardly an equivalence.

The alternative is that Wal-Mart establishes a policy of allowing vendors to damage them for 6-figure amounts with little consequence. That’s probably not the right strategy. Kind of like Newegg spending more defending patent lawsuits than settling with the trolls. (Do they still do that?)

Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#118
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally, like why does Wal-Mart even bother selling items that cost less than a million dollars?

This lawsuit could drag on for years and cost a significant portion of the amount being sued over because the value is so small. Hardly an equivalence.

Tons of lawsuits are brought for under 100k. This argument applies to all of them. The fact that Wal-Mart is a big company doesn't change anything.

Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#119
post #72
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of corporate Walmart, absolutely. But it's annoying as can be -- and even scary -- to employees at those stores. Customers too. Walmart's real objective with a very public suit like this is to make sure that customers and employees see Tesla/Solar City as the villain. Not America's biggest retailer. Even tight-fisted businesses get righteous about this kind of stuff. It's a great way to win the "we care" pos…

Right because destroying small town businesses, unethical employee treatment, etc. didn't push folks away, but a fire at a walmart somewhere in the country will.

Small town businesses were destroyed by consumers who stopped shopping there.

Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#120
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because they dont make Solar panels anymore and the panels in question are well out of warranty.

Ok, let's exclude solar panels. WMT's business model doesn't include extreme capacity Li-ion chemical bombs traveling at highway speeds. To be fair, I admire and hope one day to afford a Tesla. But the risks are clear. High capacity Li-ion batteries have high risks and incident rates of explosion.

> the risks are clear. High capacity Li-ion batteries have high risks and incident rates of explosion.

The risks are clear: high-capacity gasoline fuel tanks have high risks and incident rates of explosion.

Except... the fire and explosion risks of an ICE fuel tank are seemingly far greater than a Li-ion battery pack.

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