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The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

aeon.co

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Re: The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

#111

Post by mrob »

sifar wrote: post #59
madaxe_again wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the dividing line - the willingness to actually completely stop chasing the void, and to instead build your own nexus of meaning. It’s a leap - we have very deeply woven memetic patterns that seem absolutely real to us. As others say, plenty, “including Disney movies”, “see” this world-beyond-the-world - but they see it askance, through a glass darkly, with the chattels and symbols of the artifice wor…

>> Fear holds shut the doors of perception, because to even deeply consider, never mind act upon, the idea that we live in a consensual hallucination, presents the illusion of being capable of devaluing one’s entire existence, and therefore one’s identity. Well said. Yes people are afraid to question themselves and are actively discouraged and distracted from it. Any PKD book you'd like to suggest regarding this ?

I always suggest Ubik as the best introduction to PKD. It features the reality-bending themes he's famous for, while being more accessible than his late works.

Re: The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

#113

Post by orwin »

xwdv wrote: post #48
oroeo92k wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s possible to encounter a concept and not emotionally “get it.” It’s one thing to hear about something on TV and another entirely to change your entire life. If it were “gotten” by the masses via Disney shows, we’d all stop chasing it at all. Social ties and bonds existed before money, achieved via other means. So yeah we don’t all “get it” in the same way. As someone with enough to retire on at 40, money feels pr…

No, even if you realized all that to it's full extent, the fact is we don't get to choose how we live if we plan to live in our current world for very long. Imagine we lived in a violent brutal world where it was kill or be killed. Even if you realize that killing only brings you stress and unhappiness, you won't last very long if you stop doing it. As soon as you lay down your arms someone will come and bash your he…

Go visit back-to-landers hippies from the early 70s, they lived quasi of-grid for almost 50 years now, all play music everyday, some of them (the youngest) can still ride their horses everyday, and they eat whatever they grow. Poorest people in the US, poorest than some homeless, but they still live really well, and better than most i shall say.

They chose how to live their dreams, did it for ~50 years and still ended up pretty comfortably. If they had the same viewpoint you have, they would probably have lived miserably until an Oxycontin OD.

Re: The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

#114

Post by t0astbread »

easytiger wrote: post #106
ggm wrote: post #58

aeon web write ups feel like an attempt to be super-informative which just .. misses. They always seem to riff on things making a HUGE DEAL about THIS ONE THING which the authors feel WE ALL MISSED and I feel like I am watching a 1960s movie of stoned people.. grooving on the pattern the coffee cup makes on their hand, man.. its all one hole man.. one hole, the hole is not the cup, the hole is .. the HANDLE.. is it j…

It isn't just you, the article reads almost exactly like something i'd have conjured up at 15 years old. It sounds to me like it is designed to massage the egos of disaffected under achievers to make them feel that they might be special; that the day to day humdrum is a result of a war against their special, now dampened, genius. In a world where the masses want to identify as mentally ill and where psychiatrists exp…

I wouldn't put this on the same level as an increase in mental illness cases in recent times. The scientists making those definitions know what they're doing. This article seems to just be... rambling, I guess?

Re: The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

#115

Post by H8crilA »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #14

Sanity is the ability to correctly perceive what is real. Hypersanity, then, is a nonsense term used to sell books.

The concepts of money or nations or companies are good examples of what lives between "sane" and hypersane. Those are all fictional stories, and while useful to organize humans they do not have any physical representations. Yeah I know cash, or written laws or a signed printout of the articles of incorporation are a thing. But these only matter because the story keeps being played out.

How do you know test such concepts for not being real? One example test: can it be "destroyed" by someone's or some group's declaration? Just words? Yes to all the three: money when it's being forbidden and for example replaced with new money (ex: Hong Kong during Japanese invasion), nations when they stop being recognized (Poland during 17th century), corporations that are deemed monopolies and are broken up by the courts (Rockefeller's empire).

Re: The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

#116

Post by ggm »

circlefavshape wrote: post #103
ggm wrote: post #58

aeon web write ups feel like an attempt to be super-informative which just .. misses. They always seem to riff on things making a HUGE DEAL about THIS ONE THING which the authors feel WE ALL MISSED and I feel like I am watching a 1960s movie of stoned people.. grooving on the pattern the coffee cup makes on their hand, man.. its all one hole man.. one hole, the hole is not the cup, the hole is .. the HANDLE.. is it j…

I don't think Jared Diamond belongs on your list of "rent-a-quote new-age theorists"

He got a pretty hearty serve for his last book in the reviews I read. Guns, germs & steel was long time ago now.

Re: The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

#117

Post by orwin »

ggm wrote: post #58

aeon web write ups feel like an attempt to be super-informative which just .. misses. They always seem to riff on things making a HUGE DEAL about THIS ONE THING which the authors feel WE ALL MISSED and I feel like I am watching a 1960s movie of stoned people.. grooving on the pattern the coffee cup makes on their hand, man.. its all one hole man.. one hole, the hole is not the cup, the hole is .. the HANDLE.. is it j…

Well, if someone is taking Jung and Freud seriously, not really understanding him/her should be an average reaction. Not paying attention should be the hypersane (or, you know, rational and mysentropic) reaction, and believing the writing the insane/irrationnal reaction.

That said Jung made some philosophical points, so you can't reject everything he wrote. But it's not enough to take him seriously.

Re: The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

#118

Post by reitanqild »

evultrole wrote: post #110
Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to operate on some other set of historical books and accounts than what is readily available.

That's an odd reply. Mark 4, Jesus basically says he doesn't want everyone to be saved so he's confusing on purpose. Matthew 15, he scolds Pharisees for not killing children like god commanded Matthew 21, he goes on an anger induced rampage in the temple Mark 11, Jesus killed a tree because he was mad that it didn't have fruit when it was out of season Do you think these things don't count?

> Do you think these things don't count?

First of all, good point!

More people should read what the book actually says. It can be downright scary at times even if I have found it very useful.

That said, while 3 and 4 are definitely interesting I think most agree 3 was a good thing.

1 and 2 are interesting in this context only because in one case you seem to lack context and in the next you either haven't read it carefully or are deliberately misreading it.

Re: The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

#119

Post by rowanG077 »

JackFr wrote: post #41
throwaway94857 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competition is as innate to animal life as is breathing. It's naive to think we can simply ignore our drive to compete with one another, as naive as thinking we can ignore hunger thirst or sexual desire.

And yet we can reject our nature.

I mean I can reject my nature and stop breathing. That is until I pass out and start breathing automatically. I can reject my nature and stop eating and drinking but that has swift death associated with it.

We can try and reject our nature but it seems eminently naive to me.

Re: The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

#120

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

benj111 wrote: post #97
Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that is the only characteristic of Jesus that comes to your mind, then you have a lot more to learn about him. If the state today was based strictly on religion and someone would come in and say "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's.", implying the introduction of the separation of the church and the state, you wouldn't call this man sane and a good influence?

I didn't say anything about whether he was a good influence. The whole son if god thing just doesn't sit well with being hypersane. And being the son of God is kind of the 'characteristic' of Jesus, it isn't really something you can lay to one side.

You do understand that at the time that he said it the beliefs of people living at that time functioned differently and that claim was more relatable to people than it would be now? And if you would be talking to the people at that time you would need to use their terms, their language, and operate within their belief systems? (Also considering the question of whether Jesus actually said those words, or if that notion is just the interpretation of some people writing down the records, of what he was saying at the time.)
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