Terminating Service for 8Chan • Hacker News Board

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#111

Post by King-Aaron » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:29 AM UTC

ReptileMan wrote: post #88

King-Aaron wrote: post #56

A lot of not-so-subtle support for 8chan leaking into this thread. Cloudfare aren't a government. They aren't a democracy. I don't know why some people seem to think they should act any differently. If you own a notice board in the real world, and someone put something horrible on it, you would take it down. This is no different.

They are utility though. Have you thought about that people support neutrality/common carrier style behavior with 8chan existing being the acceptable price to pay and not 8 chan itself?

They are not a utility. At all. They are not comparable to your water or your electricity in any way.

They are comparable to a self-storage place you might keep your boat. Or an office you might rent to house your business. But they are not anything like a utility.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#112

Post by ridgeguy » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:30 AM UTC

ReptileMan wrote: post #88

King-Aaron wrote: post #56

A lot of not-so-subtle support for 8chan leaking into this thread. Cloudfare aren't a government. They aren't a democracy. I don't know why some people seem to think they should act any differently. If you own a notice board in the real world, and someone put something horrible on it, you would take it down. This is no different.

They are utility though. Have you thought about that people support neutrality/common carrier style behavior with 8chan existing being the acceptable price to pay and not 8 chan itself?

At some point, the price is unacceptable in light of the benefits conferred.

And Cloudflare isn't a utility. I agree with Cloudflare's decision. I hope whichever host 8chan runs to will do the same. Free speech is not a suicide pact.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#113

Post by untog » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:30 AM UTC

umvi wrote: post #34

It would be better if cloudflare terminated service for all media outlets. Every time you turn a mass shooting into a national spectacle, it inspires copycats in rapid succession as we've just seen. Mass shootings (generally) don't kill that many people. They are scary, yes, but not that deadly (statistically). Keep it local news, don't publish the name of the killer, basically keep the story away from the front line…

> Mass shootings (generally) don't kill that many people. They are scary, yes, but not that deadly (statistically)

Logic like that is usually applied to forces of nature. Or at least things that provide utility in return for this risk (e.g. cars). Mass shootings don't really fit that mould.

"stop telling people things" strikes me as a strange response. We could have a nationwide epidemic of mass shootings flying under the radar entirely. Sometimes issues need to faced head on.

(and even if the national media didn't say a peep, 8Chan would be all over it, tracking the number of deaths for their high score board. It's a forum for radicalisation that's been ignored for a very long time)

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#114

Post by anonu » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:30 AM UTC

Very well written and cogent post. But as they point out, the internet is designed to be open and free. And this type of hateful content will still have a platform. There's sadly nothing that can be done about that. You can always suppress and control speech, but the people who want to hear it will also always find a way to seek it out.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#115

Post by kyledrake » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:30 AM UTC

I'm sure this comment section is going to be a dumping ground for the poorly thought out MuH FrEeDoM oF SpEeCh arguments, but for the people actually caught up on this topic, this is the beginning of the end of tolerance for stochastic terrorism and it's about time.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#116

Post by kart23 » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:31 AM UTC

icpmacdo wrote: post #23

"the speed with which tech cos change after a bad PR cycle seems like solid proof that none of this is abt principles but abt trying to keep from making hard choices as long as possible. earlier today they argued that keeping 8chan within its network is a “moral obligation”" https://twitter.com/cwarzel/status/1158193462459506693

This always has been and always will be about publicity. 8ch started getting mentioned on national television, and there started to be questions directed at cloudflare. Reddit used to happily host discriminatory, violent communities, and only banned them once people started paying attention and companies became afraid to advertise on reddit because of its perceived connections to hate by the public. The message to hate communities is to lay low and not get noticed by the media.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#117

Post by droithomme » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:31 AM UTC

The Christchurch madman livestreamed his vile murders using Facebook. Isn't it long past time we removed that hate site, a nest of debauchery, from the internet as well? Of course there will be evil persons that will disagree and support the existence of hate sites, but it is not necessary for sane individuals to listen to anything they say.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#118

Post by roywiggins » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:31 AM UTC

colejohnson66 wrote: post #100

CloudFlare is not a notice board. They are practically a utility. PG&E aren’t a government, and they can’t cut off your electricity because you’re an extremist. What about ISPs? Should Cox, Comcast, Frontier, etc be liable for what flows through their pipes? Media companies say yes, but what do you do when your ISP says “bye” because you visit 4chan? Go to another ISP? In most areas of the US, you can’t

Cloudflare is a CDN. 8chan has free choice to pick another. It's not a common carrier or a public service in any way. It's just big, which isn't the same thing.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#119

Post by colejohnson66 » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:31 AM UTC

King-Aaron wrote: post #108

colejohnson66 wrote: post #100

CloudFlare is not a notice board. They are practically a utility. PG&E aren’t a government, and they can’t cut off your electricity because you’re an extremist. What about ISPs? Should Cox, Comcast, Frontier, etc be liable for what flows through their pipes? Media companies say yes, but what do you do when your ISP says “bye” because you visit 4chan? Go to another ISP? In most areas of the US, you can’t

> They are practically a utility. LOL. They are not.

Then when would they become one?

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#120

Post by roywiggins » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:32 AM UTC

ReptileMan wrote: post #88

King-Aaron wrote: post #56

A lot of not-so-subtle support for 8chan leaking into this thread. Cloudfare aren't a government. They aren't a democracy. I don't know why some people seem to think they should act any differently. If you own a notice board in the real world, and someone put something horrible on it, you would take it down. This is no different.

They are utility though. Have you thought about that people support neutrality/common carrier style behavior with 8chan existing being the acceptable price to pay and not 8 chan itself?

A common carrier is a specific thing. They're not one.