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Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

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Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a huge investment in software and hardware for an almost non-existent user base. Most current DSLRs already have Wifi or a Wifi option; those that don't can be fitted with a Wifi SD card. It turns out that hardly anyone actually uses that feature, because Wifi transfer rates are generally a more problematic bottleneck than the inconvenience of pulling the SD card and putting it into a card reader. The main users…

This is akin to people who said "why would you want computer-like features on your phone? Everyone who's willing to pay $500+ for a phone already has a laptop!" A very large number of would-be content creators (not just Instagram, either - YouTubers also) want the higher image quality, dynamic range, optical zoom, interchangeable lenses, etc. of a full-body camera, but don't want to deal with the clunky interfaces an…

> A very large number of would-be content creators (not just Instagram, either - YouTubers also) want the higher image quality, dynamic range, optical zoom, interchangeable lenses,

I also agree with you.

It seems that the most appealing features of modern DSLRs, except fast autofocus, are hidden behind 90s interfaces with multi-button setups and so on.

Additionally, modern DSLRs must have appstore-like capabilities built into the camera (rather than into a phone device that attaches to camera).

This is where Nikon/Sony/Cannon/Panasonic/Olympus/Pentax(or whoever their new owners are) -- really need to come together with some standard API/interfaces.

I am somewhat disappointing that Samsung with their NX line exited the market, they had some interesting features that I would like to see licensed-for-free to other makers -- like lens based controls.

There is so much of unexplored UI real-state on the cameras, and opportunity for standardization -- that's is so sad to see complete lack of innovation from the dSLR makers.

I do not think vanilla mobile OSes are right platform for the camera... (because of the UIs).

If anything, I suspect these companies have the people (or could get them), but they have to change their culture across marketing/support/software engineering areas. Not just how they do business, but how they hire.

A somewhat separate example: companies like Panasonic, while excelling at device engineering and manufacturing seem to be completely and utterly incompetent when building phone apps that control their own devices (in this example talking about home security products).

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is akin to people who said "why would you want computer-like features on your phone? Everyone who's willing to pay $500+ for a phone already has a laptop!" A very large number of would-be content creators (not just Instagram, either - YouTubers also) want the higher image quality, dynamic range, optical zoom, interchangeable lenses, etc. of a full-body camera, but don't want to deal with the clunky interfaces an…

> A very large number of would-be content creators (not just Instagram, either - YouTubers also) want the higher image quality, dynamic range, optical zoom, interchangeable lenses, I also agree with you. It seems that the most appealing features of modern DSLRs, except fast autofocus, are hidden behind 90s interfaces with multi-button setups and so on. Additionally, modern DSLRs must have appstore-like capabilities b…

>It seems that the most appealing features of modern >DSLRs, except fast autofocus, are hidden behind 90s >interfaces with multi-button setups and so on.

What features are you referring to? Personally as someone who likes to take photos, I find the tactile multi-button/dial interface ideal and don't want a menu driven touch UI. It seems like some people want to co-opt a camera type made primarily for photography and turn it into a social media focused camcorder. I know the companies are trying to tap into that market but it feels like it is turning cameras into jacks of all trades and masters of none. I find the pricing obscene, but some current Leica models are stills only and have very elegant and simple interfaces designed purely for taking photographs. There are high quality cinema cameras all over to choose from. It seems people are pulling the DLSR/interchangeable lens mirrorless camera market in two different directions with opposing goals...photography vs social media/video production.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A very large number of would-be content creators (not just Instagram, either - YouTubers also) want the higher image quality, dynamic range, optical zoom, interchangeable lenses, I also agree with you. It seems that the most appealing features of modern DSLRs, except fast autofocus, are hidden behind 90s interfaces with multi-button setups and so on. Additionally, modern DSLRs must have appstore-like capabilities b…

>It seems that the most appealing features of modern >DSLRs, except fast autofocus, are hidden behind 90s >interfaces with multi-button setups and so on. What features are you referring to? Personally as someone who likes to take photos, I find the tactile multi-button/dial interface ideal and don't want a menu driven touch UI. It seems like some people want to co-opt a camera type made primarily for photography and…

> What features are you referring to?

Multiple exposure bracketing

Rear curtain flash sync

Exposure compensation

Overall -- the 'preview experience is not great, at all

  -- this should be picture-in-picture kind of view.
Where I can have multiple settings previewed in different windows simultaneously, so that I can decide quickly which setting to choose, or click to take a 2 pictures, one for each setting...

I do not do much video, because I could not really figure out how to control auto focus selectively (when I want certain things in focus, and certain things out of focus as I pan)

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It seems that the most appealing features of modern >DSLRs, except fast autofocus, are hidden behind 90s >interfaces with multi-button setups and so on. What features are you referring to? Personally as someone who likes to take photos, I find the tactile multi-button/dial interface ideal and don't want a menu driven touch UI. It seems like some people want to co-opt a camera type made primarily for photography and…

> What features are you referring to? Multiple exposure bracketing Rear curtain flash sync Exposure compensation Overall -- the 'preview experience is not great, at all -- this should be picture-in-picture kind of view. Where I can have multiple settings previewed in different windows simultaneously, so that I can decide quickly which setting to choose, or click to take a 2 pictures, one for each setting... I do not…

My 14yo Lumix bridge camera can do Bracketing and Exposure compensation with a button press. Every DLSR I have used can with no look buttons and dials as well. I don't know about the flash sync as I never used that. What cameras are you using that the above things require menu hunting?

The multiple settings preview thing sounds interesting but isn't something I can see using myself. The video autofocus stuff is another example of why I don't like photography cameras being repurposed as camcorders, although I read dual-pixel AF and its equivalents are quite good. No personal experience though as I have no video interest really.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the EOS R and RP are entry level cameras. They have yet to release a professional series mirrorless camera. Comparatively, the 1st gen Sony mirrorless systems were pretty bad. They had tiny bodies that overheated, had poor battery life, and had slow unreliable AF. Ofcource, The EOS R and RP won't be compared to Sony's 1st gen, which is very fair, but I don't think canon has failed in this market.

I'd say they haven't succeeded yet - and the signs aren't great. They needed to produce a knockout offering with the EOS R and RP I think - they were so far behind that unless they did, they would struggle to build market share. I don't know how many more chances the market will give them to get it right, sadly.

I disagree. Given their history and given their capability, I give them an excellent chance to hang on to their current dominant position. They're still producing drool worthy glass.. the RF 28-70 F/2.. the RF 50mm 1.2 is the tits. The new 600 F/4 III is sublime.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#117
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can the people who take photography seriously sustain Canon's camera business on their own? That's the main problem.

This might be one of the failure modes of the current incarnation of capitalism. My Canon cameras last me forever and that's why I like them. I consider them a blazing technical and scientific success. If under the current mode of capitalism they want to "succeed" financially they might need to make crappier cameras on purpose so that people replace them every year. Crocs are also amazing. I bought a pair and never n…

Mean time between cameras has probably been increasing due to the very high quality of DSLRs for a decade now. Upgrades aren’t really worth it and there’s better things to spend money on if one wants to improve: lighting, triggers, lenses, supports, and travel!

Film cameras used to last a very long time in the range, Nikon, for example, went from the F to the F4 in forty years. Around ten years between the pro cameras. That’s down to about four years now. My 1DX shows no signs of needing replacement, despite wanting WiFi and GPS, everything is great, and despite fewer pixels than the previous 5D2, enlarges to wall-size without drama. The iPhone takes care of casual use, and a £110 Fuji XM1 covers everyday carry. A secondhand digital camera from six years ago is good enough and costs around £100. Well, why upgrade indeed?

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#119

The lack of vision at DSLR companies is mind boggling. Why can't I do light editing and post to Instagram directly from the camera? Why can't download the photos directly to a phone? Why can't I charge from a micro-USB/USB-C cable? I get it that pros don't need these features, but how hard are they to implement? The camera is already $1000+ dollars, how much more could adding a touch screen, a SIM card and a beefier…

> Why can't download the photos directly to a phone? I have Canon and Leica cameras, mid and high end, that do this. > Why can't I charge from a micro-USB/USB-C cable? There are cameras that will. > how much more could adding a touch screen Notably Sony stands alone in being the only major manufacturer _without_ touch. > a simple auto-mode (which disables most buttons and hides advanced menus) Not sure about other ma…

> Notably Sony stands alone in being the only major manufacturer _without_ touch.

Sony has touch screens on their cameras. It's of limited usefulness though, mainly limited to focus points.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless I am misunderstanding your wants you can already do that. Leave the camera's main control dial on Auto for the instant shot or P(rogram)...with appropriate auto ISO settings if so desired...to meet the requirements of your second sentence. When you power on you will be in the chosen mode. Some cameras/lenses do allow AF override but its a simple flick of a switch to turn MF on if not. This stuff is where butto…

I don't want to have a main control dial or equivalent menu. It could be in the wrong position at power-on when I am in a hurry. I want the camera to always be fully auto at power-on, and I don't want to have to touch a main control dial to go into manual mode. Moving the settings should be enough. Aside from focus, there are 4 user settings (ISO,shutter,exposure,aperture) to control 3 physical settings (ISO,shutter,…

It sounds like Fuji does part of what you want.

Fuji (at least the X-T3 I own) doesn't have an explicit "Aperture priority, shutter priority, auto, manual" mode dial like most cameras. Instead it has physical dials for aperture, shutter speed and ISO. The dials have "auto" positions and the shutter and ISO dials can be locked in place.

So instead of aperture priority, you leave the ISO and SS dials in "auto" and change the aperture on the lens. If you care about the ISO, you can change that and it'll automate the shutter speed.

The main thing it doesn't do is default to full auto at power on. I frankly think that's insane and would never buy a camera that allows it. I don't trust auto to do what I need.

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