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The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

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Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's more of a problem. In Europe the self-check outs are optional. They're also faster, because there isn't much of a queue and the people with carts all go to cashiers. I don't feel oppressed when I use them because I appreciate the speed. If that advantage disappeared, I'd be less pleased.

I'm in the Mid-South around Tennessee, Mississippi, and Arkansas. They did exactly what parent described to push self-checkouts. Many people down here like a personal touch in their orders. Some percentage prefer to use self-checkouts to get out faster or not have to interact with people as much. The stores with self-checkout tried to cut staff forcing the majority of customers to use them to bypass the artificially-…

In terms of Walmart, my experience with one that is only self-checkout (2 staffed registers remain but are usually not open) is that:

* The computers are extremely fast (or at least don't feel sluggish like some at Kroger do)

* There is no "unexpected item in the bagging area" nor "please put the item in the bagging area" (They probably mark items that will often not be bagged)

* I can constantly add and remove items from the weighted scale and put them in the cart without any interruption

* Checkout with the many options is fast both for Walmart pay and traditional payments that don't use Walmart pay.

The system does "move people like cattle" but that's evidently all Walmart thinks their stores should be doing. From my points above, they're doing their best to make the system "work" for their customers and more importantly investors.

I know this isn't a good thing for other types of people - Walmart doing this will make other stores also attempt to implement this type of thing to stay competitive on prices and margins or at least "not lag behind in technology". This system will most likely be not meet the customer satisfaction levels Walmart can, so these competitors will either

A. Lose customers due to a frustrating experience [in relation to W]

B. Lose customers due to higher prices [in relation to W]

C. Lose customers due to the loss of the "personal touch" some people like when checking out

The only stores this won't happen at is probably Publix and more local offerings. Publix charges noticeably higher prices for almost everything compared to both Kroger and Walmart for me, but I see how they're still in business:

1. the extremely friendly staff

2. policy for baggers to offer taking customers' groceries out if it's not too busy

3. having dedicated baggers at all

Although I observe the demographic to be mostly boomers which are phasing out; Millenials and Zoomers (Gen Z) are already caught up in the desensitizing internet culture, desensitizing the checkout process won't have a big negative effect on them, especially since it's just iterating on the self-serve checkout machines that have been around for years already.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't. It just increases their profit. What they charge is determined by different people in those organizations. Most vendors have cashiers in Mid-South. Walmart and Kroger are the ones adding lots of self-checkouts with Walmart being about charging less with low service and Kroger charging more with a bit more service. Dollar General and Aldi are cheapest with no self-checkout, but less cashiers. So, there's y…

Source? Grocery stores are a notoriously low-margin business. When only one uses self checkout, that one sees increase profit. When everyone uses self-checkout, they lower prices to compete with each other; and not using self checkout becomes economically unviable unless you have something else to distinguish you from your competition.

Do you have a source that retail companies follow economic theory versus profit maximization? In a capitalist system, companies try to maximize profit. They usually go into cartel or copycat mode doing the least they can to compete and increase profit. One thing many do is have a self-checkout to cut labor while otherwise running the same way. In the real world, that means the prices and level of service will be the same except for your bad, checkout experience you get so somebody might make a bonus for cutting staff or increasing profit. Capitalism 101.

The funny thing is you all come up with all this stuff that has no connection to what the companies offering self-checkout think. For them, it's much more local kind of reasoning featuring middle managers with incentives to think about.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#113
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Amazon profiting from knockoffs means you can steal bananas from Kroger’s?

If Amazon is not held accountable for fraudulent business practices, is it ethical to hold a shoplifter accountable? The answer, in my mind, is that it is not only not ethical to do so, but it is grossly unethical to do so.

Sounds like you are just trying to justify whatever logic allows you to benefit. Amazon resold a fake charger so you should be allowed to steal that guy's bananas, got it.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Amazon is not held accountable for fraudulent business practices, is it ethical to hold a shoplifter accountable? The answer, in my mind, is that it is not only not ethical to do so, but it is grossly unethical to do so.

Sounds like you are just trying to justify whatever logic allows you to benefit. Amazon resold a fake charger so you should be allowed to steal that guy's bananas, got it.

His argument is "I live in a low-trust society, in which large and powerful institutions are only out for themselves, carelessly fuck me, nobody cares, and so it is my moral obligation to protect my personal interests by whatever means possible."

It's a very sour mindset, but it's also very common in third world countries and American inner-city ghettos where affairs are quite nasty.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#115

>> “There is NO MORAL ISSUE with stealing from a store that forces you to use self checkout, period. THEY ARE CHARGING YOU TO WORK AT THEIR STORE.” I find the twisted reasoning in this comment shocking and I don't really know what to say. It is a kind of twisted reasoning that I've only seen in people who were high on strong narcotics and were carried away by waves of wishful thinking and delusions, or, again, extrem…

> It is a kind of twisted reasoning that I've only seen in people who were high on strong narcotics and were carried away by waves of wishful thinking and delusions, or, again, extreme persecution complex

I really don't see the relation between delusional thinking and consuming narcotics. Can you explain what you mean? I've seen people high on narcotics; they seem loopy and sleepy, but not particularly susceptible to fallacious reasoning.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#117
post #12

I wanted to checkout at a Home Depot but there were no employees to be seen and only self-checkout lanes open. I had some items I wanted help with and in frustration asked the customer next to me, "does anybody work here?" He said "I guess we do." I won't be the guy who causes shrinkage but it seems reasonable for the seller to pay something for the buyers' labor as cashier.

> I won't be the guy who causes shrinkage but it seems reasonable for the seller to pay something for the buyers' labor as cashier.

If it's reasonable, there's nothing stopping anyone from asking the store if they'd like to make that deal.

I suspect they don't offer a discount for self-checkout because those lanes would be overwhelmed.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source? Grocery stores are a notoriously low-margin business. When only one uses self checkout, that one sees increase profit. When everyone uses self-checkout, they lower prices to compete with each other; and not using self checkout becomes economically unviable unless you have something else to distinguish you from your competition.

Do you have a source that retail companies follow economic theory versus profit maximization? In a capitalist system, companies try to maximize profit. They usually go into cartel or copycat mode doing the least they can to compete and increase profit. One thing many do is have a self-checkout to cut labor while otherwise running the same way. In the real world, that means the prices and level of service will be the…

These are publicly traded companies. We do not need to guess what they are doing.

Walmart has a profit margin of 1.62% https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/WMT/walmart/net-pr...

Target: 3.96% https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TGT/target/net-pro...

BJs: 1.13% https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/BJ/bjs-wholesale-c...

For reference:

Alphabet: 19.71% https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GOOG/alphabet/net-...

Microsoft: 31.18% https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MSFT/microsoft/net...

McDonalds: 28.19% https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MCD/mcdonalds/net-...

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Amazon is not held accountable for fraudulent business practices, is it ethical to hold a shoplifter accountable? The answer, in my mind, is that it is not only not ethical to do so, but it is grossly unethical to do so.

It's not fair but we shouldn't conflate the judgement of other's actions with choosing how we ourselves act. If Amazon is not held accountable for fraudulent business practices should I then steal? No. They've no relevance to each other, I am responsible for my actions.

Applying a double standard between people is in itself unethical; that is my entire point. We can all choose to live by Amazon's rules, where maximizing profit without regard to ethics is acceptable, or we can live by our conventional sense of morality (which is what I want.) But insofar as we hold ordinary people to a different standard than Amazon, we are behaving unethically. The shoplifting is not central to my point.
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