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The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

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Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#111

Post by mc32 »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #99
reaperducer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Minnesota for example, all one needs is another registered voter to vouch for them. My thoughts on this are old school. Like 1700's old school. A person's right to vote exists with or without documentation. A piece of paper, an entry in a ledger, or a row in a database has no bearing on whether that right exists, or should be exercised. In many of the states where I've lived (13 so far), all that was needed to vot…

Hopefully we get self driving cars you don't need a license for ASAP, so the expectation of every adult constantly carrying around an ID decreases.

Not if you want to buy cold medicine, get a library card, get some beers, buy some legal pot, air b&b, zip car, U-Haul , getting a job, etc. So, you will still need to carry it --unless you want to risk having to go back home in order to do any of the above.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#112

Post by mch82 »

rwbt wrote: post #19

Sure you don't need much 'info' to create a corporation. But if said corporation has any income/employees the reporting and maintenance requirements are far greater than maintaining a library card.

Incorporation requires a bunch of info, plus the step of registering the company. The claim in the headline is wrong as far as I’m able to tell.

Edit: In my original comment I added some links.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#113

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

Preface: I keyword searched for 'county' & 'counties' on this page & didn't see my point raised.

The article compares library cards state by state. However, I've never heard of a state issued library card, only county, city or other local municipality.

My point is I'm not clear where the researchers found 50 sets of state library card requirements.

There's ~3000 counties and at least 4000 cities in the US. Somewhere in those numbers ought to be how many different sets of library card requirements, there are in the US.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#114

Post by ColanR »

waffle_ss wrote: post #76
reaperducer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Minnesota for example, all one needs is another registered voter to vouch for them. My thoughts on this are old school. Like 1700's old school. A person's right to vote exists with or without documentation. A piece of paper, an entry in a ledger, or a row in a database has no bearing on whether that right exists, or should be exercised. In many of the states where I've lived (13 so far), all that was needed to vot…

Umm the 1700's in America were the era of needing to have land ownership to vote (more than half of white men couldn't vote), poll taxes, exclusion of blacks, native Americans, and women, religious tests, and so on. The 15th Amendment that changed some of that wasn't even passed until 1870. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_rights_in_the_United_St...

However, that's orthogonal to the issue; documentation of your right to vote is not one of the requirements of possessing that right. (as parent said, "A person's right to vote exists with or without documentation.") It is a dramatic improvement that the people with the right to vote has been expanded since the 1700s, but what you said doesn't actually speak against the basic idea that documentation is not relevant to the exercise of ones rights.

As an aside: once documentation is required, we enter a position where we do not have our rights until proven otherwise.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#116

Post by GuiA »

bdcravens wrote: post #13

A library is loaning you property, usually collateral-free. A corporation is just a placeholder essentially for the activities it will perform, each of which will likely have far more stringent requirements than a library card.

This feels like post hoc rationalization.

Read page 4 for an actual side by side comparison.

You’ll see that all you really need to get a library card is present a form of identification, and perhaps a utility bill to prove your current address. Whereas for registering a corporation:

” No state requires any information about the person(s) who directly or indirectly own or control the company (often referred to as a beneficial owner)”

... along with many other similarly surprising statements that establish not even a low bar, but the absence of a bar at all.

How does that make any sense when, as the report highlights, those shell corporations - that is corporations whose placeholder status is used in itself to realize some gain, and thus never have to meet “more stringent requirements” - can then be used for “tax evasion, shady campaign contributions, cigarette smuggling, and weapons dealing”?

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#117

Post by pstuart »

foreach9885 wrote: post #60
scott_paul wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I increasingly think the US should look into adopting something akin to Estonia's voting system. Perhaps with some added zero-knowledge proof layer so that it can be known that all votes were valid, but not exactly who voted which way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voting_in_Estonia

Honestly, that is a great idea, but it would never happen. It would be called racist if not enough non-white people sign up for it. No matter how easy you make enrollment.

Irony alert!

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#118

Post by dymk »

reaperducer wrote: post #14
jdoliner wrote: post #4

I don't see any particular reason why the identification process for a corporation should be more stringent than a library card. What is astonishing to me is that both are meaningfully more stringent than voting. In Minnesota for example, all one needs is another registered voter to vouch for them. https://www.sos.state.mn.us/elections-voting/register-to-vot...

In Minnesota for example, all one needs is another registered voter to vouch for them. My thoughts on this are old school. Like 1700's old school. A person's right to vote exists with or without documentation. A piece of paper, an entry in a ledger, or a row in a database has no bearing on whether that right exists, or should be exercised. In many of the states where I've lived (13 so far), all that was needed to vot…

If you're voting on matters of public policy, you should be in a position where the outcome of that policy affects you as if you are part of that community. Part of that is being... part of that community. Having an ID is a pretty good proxy for that.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#119

Post by dymk »

ColanR wrote: post #114
waffle_ss wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm the 1700's in America were the era of needing to have land ownership to vote (more than half of white men couldn't vote), poll taxes, exclusion of blacks, native Americans, and women, religious tests, and so on. The 15th Amendment that changed some of that wasn't even passed until 1870. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_rights_in_the_United_St...

However, that's orthogonal to the issue; documentation of your right to vote is not one of the requirements of possessing that right. (as parent said, "A person's right to vote exists with or without documentation.") It is a dramatic improvement that the people with the right to vote has been expanded since the 1700s, but what you said doesn't actually speak against the basic idea that documentation is not relevant t…

How do you prevent fraudulent voting without being able to tie a vote back to a real, documented person?

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#120

Post by damq »

lutorm wrote: post #12
jdoliner wrote: post #4

I don't see any particular reason why the identification process for a corporation should be more stringent than a library card. What is astonishing to me is that both are meaningfully more stringent than voting. In Minnesota for example, all one needs is another registered voter to vouch for them. https://www.sos.state.mn.us/elections-voting/register-to-vot...

Voting is a constitutional right, forming a corporation or getting a library card is not.

Voting is only a Constitutional right for citizens. Hence the need to prove you're a citizen before voting.
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