The Problem of Mindfulness • Hacker News Board

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#111

Post by Spearchucker » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:14 AM UTC

proverbialbunny wrote: post #70

The author has fallen into nihilism and has mistaken it for Buddhism and mindfulness meditation. Buddhism warns against falling into nihilism like this, but I suspect mindfulness meditation practices do not. Anatta doesn't mean no-self. It's a complex concept and is often mistaken. Anatta has two parts to it: 1) Reality is broken up and labeled as two kinds. There is the present moment reality, before it has been lab…

That's a pretty profound assumption to make about someone after reading a single document by said someone. Especially with comments from the author like "...each of us is an underlying subject of our own experience..."

Of course nihilism by definition is impossible. A belief in nothing is still a belief.

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#112

Post by mping » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:17 AM UTC

sshekhar wrote: post #11

The word mindfulness itself is a poor translation of the Pali word 'Sati'. The Pali word actually means 'remembering to be aware of the objects that your mind is attending to'. There is no word in western languages to capture that phrase and hence word 'mindfulness' was used to convey in a confusing manner what 'Sati' means. I have been meditating for 1 hour to 1.5 hour every day for several years and I finally got i…

Congratulations on reaching 1st jhana, or dhyana in Sanskrit. Are you studying under a teacher? A good teacher can guide you much faster. I have witnessed people reaching 1st dhyana in two weeks ( in a retreat) without prior meditation practice, and even faster.

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#113

Post by mapcars » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:18 AM UTC

weddpros wrote: post #59

badpun wrote: post #3

I've had very similar thoughts about mindfullness. Mindfullness tells you to observe your fears and other feelings and see that they come and go, while it does not focus at all on whether and to what degree they are actual valid and important. Feelings are often signals from your subconsciousness, which is trying to tell that something. Of course, a lot of the time these signals can be BS or blown out of proportions…

I'm in that boat too. Before meditation, I used to practice self-hypnosis and at the beginning, I thought they were similar. But self hypnosis helps you change your thoughts, when meditation is simply acknowledgement of thoughts, which feels useless to me. In a sense, meditation seems very shallow, it's the very first step. Then come the techniques of self-hypnosis which lead to change and the real self-help. I don't…

>when meditation is simply acknowledgement of thoughts, which feels useless to me.

I would say you clearly have not meditated enough :)

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#114

Post by mping » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:18 AM UTC

caser wrote: post #22

sshekhar wrote: post #11

The word mindfulness itself is a poor translation of the Pali word 'Sati'. The Pali word actually means 'remembering to be aware of the objects that your mind is attending to'. There is no word in western languages to capture that phrase and hence word 'mindfulness' was used to convey in a confusing manner what 'Sati' means. I have been meditating for 1 hour to 1.5 hour every day for several years and I finally got i…

I think it’s also possible that some people aren’t looking for altered states from their mindfulness practices.

It's not altered, it's clearer. If you practice mindfulness and don't expect to have a clearer mind it's a waste of time in my opinion.

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#115

Post by chewz » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:31 AM UTC

chewz wrote: post #95

username90 wrote: post #85

Some studies have shown that mindfulness helps, but is it the actual "mindfulness" or is it the pause from life that helps? The alternative should not be to do nothing, but to for example take a slow walk or a nice shower. I'd bet that taking a walk would actually provide more benefits than meditation and mindfulness since it is coupled with exercise. Personally I have gotten nothing from mindfulness and meditation,…

Gardening is the new mindfulness. :-) Also sailing non-stop for nine weeks in the ocean had been for me much better experience (in terms of emptying mind and getting in touch with myself) then any retreat (and I did some).

And if you are in for a quick fix freediving puts you into the zone in seconds.

https://youtu.be/Od45T65pTaU

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#116

Post by ivanhoe » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:41 AM UTC

dboreham wrote: post #65

JamesBarney wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly the definition of mindfulness is literally being aware of your mental state. If being carried away by emotions is like being lost than mindfulness is developing a good sense of direction. And mindfulness meditation is the practice through which one develops this skill.

The tcpdump of the brain.

More like setting a set of mental breakpoints on critical actions, so when they run you can stop and analyze the situation before going any further.

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#117

Post by discreteevent » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:46 AM UTC

strictfp wrote: post #101

kranner wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be better to adjust the environment. Adjusting the environment is much more difficult and, in many cases, simply impossible. To paraphrase an old folk tale, what is easier: making the entire land-surface of the Earth easier to walk on, or just putting shoes on one's feet?

Sure, but fixing the bigger problems, such as stress in the workplace, would have many more benefits. Ans as far as the analogy goes, it might be hard to fix the entire surface of the earth, but that's a strawman, because we have plenty of urbanised and indoor areas where you don't need shoes. What's the easiest? To cover the entire earth in asphalt, or make all cars be 4wd?

I think it's more like the stress in the workplace (for example) is caused by two things. Greedy or power hungry people deliberately harming others (for example) and then other people over reacting to this but also to just the normal shit you have to deal with anyway. So the mindfulness is to deal with the over reaction but ethics and morality are needed to deal with the action. You need both, seems to be the criticism that some people are making about having mindfulness without some ethical framework like Buddhism.

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#118

Post by gridlockd » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:56 AM UTC

zzzeek wrote: post #68

gridlockd wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having the thought that the other driver is an asshole is the first obscuration that prevents omniscience You know what else prevents omniscience? The second law of thermodynamics. So what? > It’s not that “you” don’t exist. It’s that the conditioned and conventionally accepted ways that we think we exist (and by extension the ways that we project that others exist) are ultimately false and don’t correspond to real…

So...it might help you to realize that other people who you would normally think are "assholes", people who you don't know yet hate nonetheless, are nothing like that, and maybe you've been making all kinds of judgments about people that aren't really true, and that in fact, reality calls for a vastly larger degree of love and compassion for others, even people who cut you off on the road. You treat people completely…

I don't hate anybody, I didn't need some crank who talks about omniscience to help me realize that.

From a cosmological standpoint, of course one can argue that nobody has a free will and that nobody is ultimately responsible for anything.

For practical purposes, this is a pretty useless insight. In practical terms, the people that cut you off in traffic for no good reason are what we humans call "assholes" (or similar). We sanction this behavior so that we can work better as a society. There's a purpose for you to get upset about such behavior. It is directly connected to your instinct for survival, your will to live.

Yes, sometimes your will to live makes you suffer. That doesn't mean killing off that will is "enlightened", or that the people who "tune out" are to be revered for it. You're rebranding a thinly veiled "sour grapes attitude" into a virtue.

> You treat people completely differently, you become kinder, more courteous, less hateful, and more patient, at larger scale animosity and hostility between peoples decreases to zero and world / universal peace is achieved.

This is a foolish belief. If there is no such thing as an "asshole", there is no such thing as "murderer". Remember, nobody is responsible for anything. It's all just part of the cosmic ballet! That's how Zen Buddhism helped the Japanese commit all those atrocities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_at_War

Remember, not everyone actually buys into this philosophy, by their nature. Your brand of philosophy is one of weakness, of little resistance. It doesn't have the "tools" for survival on its own and it's easily exploited.

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#119

Post by 1000units » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 10:11 AM UTC

gridlockd wrote: post #118

zzzeek wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So...it might help you to realize that other people who you would normally think are "assholes", people who you don't know yet hate nonetheless, are nothing like that, and maybe you've been making all kinds of judgments about people that aren't really true, and that in fact, reality calls for a vastly larger degree of love and compassion for others, even people who cut you off on the road. You treat people completely…

I don't hate anybody, I didn't need some crank who talks about omniscience to help me realize that. From a cosmological standpoint, of course one can argue that nobody has a free will and that nobody is ultimately responsible for anything. For practical purposes, this is a pretty useless insight. In practical terms, the people that cut you off in traffic for no good reason are what we humans call "assholes" (or simil…

Your posting in this thread and particularly this comment is well-reasoned, civil, and on target, and I think it's a shame you're being censored. If you (or any bystanders of similar mind) email the address in my profile, I will reach out with an invitation to a forum for hard-skinned rationalists if/when I get around to creating it. Cheers.

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#120

Post by kr4 » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 10:33 AM UTC

keymone wrote: post #100

kr4 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://omswami.com/2018/04/enlightenment.html In my personal experience, enlightenment is realizing, at the depth of my being, this prospective that nothing, absolutely nothing in this world, including my body, relationships, wealth and my possessions are going to last for ever; everything is impermanent and my problems are extremely tiny compare to the immensity of the universe, so I should take it easy and live lif…

This doesn’t answer my question.

In one word: selflessness. Acts of a truly enlightened or awakened being will be selfless. He has already realized the futility of doing actions for sense gratification. Please note the word realized. Intellectual understanding is different from realization. With the former your subconscious mind continues to propell you to strive for fulfilling selfish desires while realization will clean the slate. When we study the lives and sayings of great people, we find in them the quality of selflessness, no matter what their religious or cultural background might be.

There are also physical signs. There are no unnecessary bodily movements. The speech also becomes pleasing. Gestures are graceful. Such a person seems to emit a unearthly glow. People experience unconditional love and calmness in his presence. However physical signs aren't the definitive teller as most of these can be imitated for a limited public appearance. Hence the most important factor is the conduct.