Lyft releases self-driving research dataset • Hacker News Board

Re: Lyft releases self-driving research dataset

#111

Post by yodon » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 1:35 AM UTC

bigiain wrote: post #109

yodon wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CC is rarely a good license to choose other than to make yourself feel good. It does a terrible job of dealing with the actual matters of importance to a license outside of photo sharing (and even there it's not a good choice, as many photographers have found because it explicitly grants rights to others that the photographer may not be able to to grant to them, leaving the photographer open to lawsuits as has happen…

I'm curious about what you (or anyone else) would recommend as better license choices for datasets that might be used in machine learning model training? (With, I suppose, hints about what restrictions you might be wanting to grant or prohibit by particular license options?)

IANAL but my sense is that it will be a number of years before we really know what works with regards to this kind of licensing of DNN/ML training data sets. It's almost certainly going to be decided on the basis of what's called "case law", which really just means "a bunch of random judges who don't know anything about ML made decisions on a bunch of random lawsuits that probably were not good samples to pick and which were probably taken to court by pairs of parties with wildly different abilities to pay lawyers and now we are stuck with those decisions as precedent for future cases."

If that sounds like a crappy legal footing for the next 20 years of software development, yeah, it is. It's also why Mitch Kapor and a few others founded and funded the EFF to try to encourage better case law decisions around the early days of electronic privacy law. We definitely need an EFF like effort around ML/DNN/etc., but I'm not holding my breath.

I wish I had a better answer, I'm mostly hoping someone else here does.

Re: Lyft releases self-driving research dataset

#112

Post by DwarvenEngineer » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 4:22 AM UTC

_coveredInBees wrote: post #27

cardigan wrote: post #13

(I work at scale) Hmm this blog post and the website doesn't mention that this dataset was mostly annotated by Scale (scale.ai), as part of a partnership with Lyft ... We're going to publish a blog post about this soon, but if anyone at Lyft is reading this, please figure out how to reasonably credit Scale since I doubt leaving out Scale completely from the announcement is in the spirit of the agreement. Scale should…

Out of curiosity, isn't Lyft just a customer that pays Scale for annotation services? Or is there a reason for this to be more of a partnership and less of a customer-client relationship?

yeah, i'd say so. what if lyft's lidar manufacturers said that they should be included in this release because it's their lidars? I agree, it doesnt really need mentioning

Re: Lyft releases self-driving research dataset

#113

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Re: Lyft releases self-driving research dataset

#114

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Re: Lyft releases self-driving research dataset

#115

Post by KaiserPro » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 8:11 AM UTC

jaimex2 wrote: post #108

KaiserPro wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not really that wise, its a large gamble. tesla decided to not include lidar because they couldn't find a manufacturer that would make one cheap enough for them/fell out over terms. Its not a statement of vision. Its exactly the same decision that Apple dropped Flash support for the iPhone, The processor and ram were too limited to support it, adobe refused to make compromises, and it was too late to change befor…

Anytime you do something new its a gamble and things will go wrong. Tesla has never been shy of using expensive components for their products. Their entire strategy relies on bringing down battery costs. Musk makes a very good argument for his choice to not use LIDAR - nothing alive on this planet uses it. Every creature navigates our world on vision, even dolphins and bats use sonar as a secondary system. The proof…

> Musk makes a very good argument for his choice to not use LIDAR - nothing alive on this planet uses it. Every creature navigates our world on vision, even dolphins and bats use sonar as a secondary system. The proof of concept is everywhere, Tesla is just adopting it.

Nothing alive uses wheels, apart from us. Its a null argument.

I don't mind a gamble, what I mind is patent bullshit. If he'd been honest and said "Lidar is great, but its too expensive, and the manufactures are not willing to compromise" and left it at that, it'd be ok. But he didn't He dressed it up in semi prophetic _wank_. Now we have legions of "experts" blindly parroting that ToF sensors are dead and will be never used into the future.

I'm willing to be that a Lidar-like Time if Flight sensor will be shoved into a smartphone in the next 4 years. why? because it makes SLAM so much more easy/immersive/better. Which makes AR better, and more useful.

Once that happens, all bets are off.

Re: Lyft releases self-driving research dataset

#116

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Re: Lyft releases self-driving research dataset

#117

Post by jennywarren » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

ISL wrote: post #7

jedberg wrote: post #5

> Academic research accelerates innovation, but it requires costly data that is out of reach for most academic teams. This is true of pretty much any AI research. Look at Puffer[0], which was just on HN a couple of days ago. They're running a free streaming service just to get enough data to train their algorithms, and in fact mention in their FAQ that they would love to use commercial data if they could get it. Unfo…

I've seen semiconductor industry companies collaborate on grant-funding fundamental condensed-matter physics research. If it is a question of interest to all parties, and the work is too blue-sky to be immediately profitable, sometimes they'll fund the work.

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Re: Lyft releases self-driving research dataset

#118

Post by astrostl » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

> Self-driving is too big — and too important — an endeavor for any one team to solve alone. Transportation serves all of us, and we should all be invested in the next step of its evolution.

Imagine how much better things could be if everyone working on maps felt the same.

Re: Lyft releases self-driving research dataset

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Re: Lyft releases self-driving research dataset

#120

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