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Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

theguardian.com

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Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#111

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

mannykannot wrote: post #13

On the one hand, I personally feel that trying to avoid the Maxes specifically, once they are allowed back in service, would be an excess of caution that overemphasizes the legacy of one issue. On the other hand, could they have found a better way of sending the message that they think the problem is passenger perceptions, rather than in systems engineering and adequate pilot training?

I'd probably agree, depending on how this all resolves once they're in service. That said, it's an individual by individual decision. If my friend is afraid of heights, which I consider irrational, and I lie to them to get them somewhere high, taking that choice from them, I'm still being a huge asshole.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#112

Post by S_A_P »

question- if you are a pilot, and you fly 737s do you think that you are now unaware of the differences? Do you think that given that awareness you may be apt to want to learn about those differences, even if not for curiosities sake, but so that you don't wind up fighting a plane and losing? Now dont mistake this as sympathy or support for the management of Boeing. I think they need to pay fines/spend time in jail/have their ability to lead a corporation revoked. This was gross mismanagement, and they deserve civil and criminal charges for it.

However, it sounds to me like if you know about how the new 737 behaves, and you are aware of/trained on the procedure to fix an incident similar to what happened in the 2 crashes then you are likely to recover without any issue. On the flipside, I used to love to fly SWA because they had only 737s and all their planes were more or less the same and maintenance would be standard across all planes and therefore something that is repeatable and more likely to be mastered by the technicians. Parts would be easily available for their fleet. The pilots know the flight envelope. Sounds to me like one of southwest's biggest selling points is about to go out the window for me, even if this is a laymans perception that is completely wrong. It still seems like they have fragmented their fleet.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#113

Post by retSava »

djsumdog wrote: post #95
retSava wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This company is dead. Doubt it. For you perhaps, but the short memory of the general public, rebranding, and Boeing rebates (probably some generous amounts of heavy wine'n'dine), mean they will definitively show up at an airport near you.

The 737 survived one serious design flaw decades ago (the stuck rudder issue). People will forget about this as well.

Wasn't there something with an overheating or leaking fuel tank too?

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#114

Post by magduf »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #83
magduf wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, it's pretty hard to avoid the 737 for a lot of routes because it's so ubiquitous. Also, most of them were engineered and built before the current management, and have proven themselves with a good safety record so far, so they really should be OK. It's the new MAX model you really want to avoid, and it's probably a good idea to avoid the 787 as well.

Why the 787? It's been my favourite ride so far—comfort-wise.

1. It was created during the current management era. 2. It was built in South Carolina at a new plant that had huge production issues, such as leaving metal shavings inside the airplanes where they would get into wiring harnesses.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#116

Post by pnw_hazor »

matwood wrote: post #7

Regardless of the name change they are still grounded. Given all the scrutiny, when they finally do fly again they will likely be one of safest planes in the sky.

The cause of the problem is systemic in today's Boeing. Bad engineering coupled with corporate deception to hide it.

Until executives are fired and senior engineers that have been laid-off are rehired you should expect no substantive changes.

It is not just commercial, the US Air Force has been turning back tankers for sloppy work as well. https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-ramp-up-inspections-a...

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#117

Post by magduf »

cabaalis wrote: post #69
matz1 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally would not worry if my next flight is Boeing 737 max, the probability it will crash still very low, even if it do crash, I will be dead anyway it won't matter. Doesn't mean I trust Boeing, I trust market force, I trust that other people will keep the uproar to keep airline in check.

> I trust that other people will keep the uproar to keep airline in check. I agree with you, and expect that engineers/regulators to do their jobs. But I think this is a form of the bystander effect. [1] I'm not sure what we can do proactively except be cognizant of what we choose to ride in. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

The engineers and regulators have already proven they can't be trusted to do their jobs. Thankfully, the EASA has stepped up to do some proper regulation now that they've seen that they can't trust the FAA any more, and are keeping the plane grounded.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#118

Post by matonias »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #101

>Airlines fear some passengers will refuse to fly on the Max. Well this sure solves that problem in an anti-customer way. Your partner doesn't want want duck for dinner? Order it anyways and tell them it isn't duck. If you make up a new word for duck, it's not lying and you're a good partner. /s

In Amsterdam there is a steakhouse that has been serving horse steaks as just ‘steaks’ for over 40 years.

People thought they were great and prefered them over beef, untill they found out it was horse.

Its all in the mind!

(Steak doesn’t kill you though, airplanes do)

Edit: resto is called Piet de Leeuw

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#119

Post by Kiro »

argd678 wrote: post #75
AznHisoka wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. If this happens, and my company is forcing me to business travel, I'm refusing to travel unless I'm put on an Airbus.

What company makes it hard to pick your flight that you’d need to resort to leverage?

What mid-size and above company lets you book your own flights at all?

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#120

Post by sametmax »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #107
sametmax wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immoral yes. Ridiculous no. People have a short memory and a strong affect toward symbolism. Marketing just pulls the desired psychological tricks to reach their objective. It works. Just like lying in politics works. Just like making corporate PR statements work. Just like in your face ads work. Just like showing boobs work. It will work as long as people are cruising in their life instead of trying to build it. It…

Immoral-as-the-norm is itself ridiculous.

I tend to see bad apples just like tornadoes or forest fires. They are natural catastrophes, and they will always be there, not matter the society we build.

The important part is how we react to those people. In that sense, I feel we are more responsible for the problem than them. Indeed, why blame a tornado ? Better learn to behave in case of one, and make houses the proper way.

So I don't think we should focus on the immorality as much as we should make sure we create generations of persons than know how to deal with it: remember bad deeds, detect manipulations, choose what they consume, etc.

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