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Two-thirds of American employees regret their college degrees

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Re: Two-thirds of American employees regret their college degrees

#111

Post by AnimalMuppet »

perfunctory wrote: post #110
malandrew wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes the two coincide. Had you been born 20 years earlier but still had the same passions, how might things have been different? Another fun thought exercise, what subject can someone go study today that would be a hobby right now that parents would worry about with respect to job prospects, but that in 5, 10 and 20 years will have its own Google, Facebook, Apple and World Wide Web?

> Another fun thought exercise, what subject can someone go study today That's a nice one. As Alan Kay said - the best way to predict the future is to invent it. I guess we should let kids study what they like and then let them go explore and discover and make mistakes and invent that future. Instead of trying to shoehorn them into the existing job market.

Of the kids who take that approach, some huge fraction will not invent the future. ("The future wasn't artisanal baskets with rap lyrics enscribed? Who knew?")

For the ones who succeed, your approach will work brilliantly. For the ones who are off on a dead end that they imagine to be obviously right... some other approach might be more useful.

Re: Two-thirds of American employees regret their college degrees

#112

Post by rhinoceraptor »

redwards510 wrote: post #45
legitster wrote: post #13

In WA, there is a program where you can finish the last two years of high school at a community college and graduate with a two year degree for free. It was probably the best decision of my life. I basically got to trial and error all of my interests for free much earlier and cheaper than everyone else. And it went against the guidance of my school counselors. They thought community college would hurt my chances at g…

Running Start alumni here. It's an amazing program, but I often wonder if it was the right decision. Leaving high school at 10th (of 12) grade had a major impact on my life. I lost out on those long term friendships, prom, senior year, graduation, and the collective preparation for college, as well as missing out on freshman year OF university, etc. I don't have high school reunions to attend. In the end, it didn't c…

I went to a similar program, I personally loved it. It's not for everyone, but for me it was amazing.

The 7 AM to 4 PM schedule of high schools is just insane. No kid needs to be at school that long, and that early. And most classes give out excessive homework on top of that.

Conventional high schools are infantilizing, harmful to health (waking up at 6 AM to get to class is absurd), and teach people to hate learning. And if you're not a social butterfly you can expect to be bullied as well.

Re: Two-thirds of American employees regret their college degrees

#113

Post by rhinoceraptor »

mistahchris wrote: post #99
legitster wrote: post #13

In WA, there is a program where you can finish the last two years of high school at a community college and graduate with a two year degree for free. It was probably the best decision of my life. I basically got to trial and error all of my interests for free much earlier and cheaper than everyone else. And it went against the guidance of my school counselors. They thought community college would hurt my chances at g…

I was also a running start student. I think that it was not a good choice for me. I was not well prepared for the responsibilities of managing my time, and had no desire to think long term. I doubt I'm alone, or even unusual. I know I would have gotten more out of my education had I waited a few years. I think community college is fantastic, but I'm not so sure about starting so young.

You have to fail in order to learn. And it's much better to fail at college when you're not liable for ridiculous loan debt, and still living at home.

Re: Two-thirds of American employees regret their college degrees

#115

Post by vlaak »

singhrac wrote: post #97
legitster wrote: post #13

In WA, there is a program where you can finish the last two years of high school at a community college and graduate with a two year degree for free. It was probably the best decision of my life. I basically got to trial and error all of my interests for free much earlier and cheaper than everyone else. And it went against the guidance of my school counselors. They thought community college would hurt my chances at g…

I was a Running Start alum as well (along with many of my friends). If you're in Pullman, you can take courses at Washington State University. It was incredible for me - for my friends who went to UW or WSU after graduation, they got 2 years of college credit and many graduated early. I went out of state and was able to skip introductory courses, and having already been to college in high school meant I was way more…

You lived in Pullman and didn't attend WSU after high school? I'm quite curious about this. I thought WSU was awesome and if I could have gone without as much debt (living at home) I would have in a heartbeat! Also, the Palouse is such a fantastic place. Pullman in summers was the best. Were you just tired of it by the time you graduated?

Re: Two-thirds of American employees regret their college degrees

#116

Post by fuzz4lyfe »

Hermitian909 wrote: post #35
sdinsn wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with zero information Zero information? Young people have so much information: government job statistics, job growth predictions, free career advice, peer-led career forums, etc. They just ignore all of it.

This is disingenuous, data you either don't know exists or lack the tools to parse is useless. Even if a young person does know it exists and can parse it, it is often the case that every authority figure in a young person's life is giving bad information. Often times your teachers, guidance counselor, school administrators, and parents are pressuring you to go to some middling 4 year institution. We spend 18 years t…

The problem is who we have as authority figures. Teachers and school administrators are people who took easier coursework than say a biologist or a computer scientist and then got a government job. That pathway isn't like most of employment and frankly most of the teachers I had wouldn't be able to hack it in a private company.

All throughout high school I was told that I would be unable to become a software dev without college. I dropped out of high school, work as a software dev and make more per year than any of the people who said I wouldn't be able to do that. They simply aren't the kind of people to ask if you are planning a career that isn't in unionized government work, most of them have never done anything else.

Re: Two-thirds of American employees regret their college degrees

#117

Post by observer12 »

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #116
Hermitian909 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is disingenuous, data you either don't know exists or lack the tools to parse is useless. Even if a young person does know it exists and can parse it, it is often the case that every authority figure in a young person's life is giving bad information. Often times your teachers, guidance counselor, school administrators, and parents are pressuring you to go to some middling 4 year institution. We spend 18 years t…

The problem is who we have as authority figures. Teachers and school administrators are people who took easier coursework than say a biologist or a computer scientist and then got a government job. That pathway isn't like most of employment and frankly most of the teachers I had wouldn't be able to hack it in a private company. All throughout high school I was told that I would be unable to become a software dev with…

The same thing happens with IT security. A common question that comes from high school or college students is how to get started in the field. When the question is answered by people in IT security its pretty common to see college isn't required and be given paths to getting into IT security that don't require a degree. When its answered by people outside the field, go to college and get a degree is the answer.

The reality is a degree isn't required its only one path of many someone can take. And often those with degrees eventually follow the same path those without went. The difference is they are four years behind in career progression and thousands in debt.

Re: Two-thirds of American employees regret their college degrees

#118

Post by observer12 »

avgDev wrote: post #6

Before being an SE, I had many shit jobs and getting the college degree unlocked many doors for me. I went to a state uni, it was relatively cheap, I don't think I would make anything close to what I make now as I hate sales. However, I know smart people with art degrees, which are useless to them. Every competent person I have met when studying computer science is doing very well, would they achieve the same success…

In my experience tech companies tend to be the ones that are snobby about degrees. I know Fortune 50s (non tech companies) that don't care about degrees.

Re: Two-thirds of American employees regret their college degrees

#119

Post by observer12 »

tropo wrote: post #93
takk309 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have two Civil Engineering degrees (BS and MS) and have been working in the field for some time now and I think the opposite, CE should be a minimum 5 year program. The people I see as fresh undergraduates do not know enough to do the job but those with master's degrees do. I guess it is forcing those that do the hiring to select for those who have more schooling.

Right now it is 1 year, plus another 3 years of filler. We could make it 5 with another year of filler, but I don't think that would help. Suppose we mandate another year worth of classes: Ancient Mesopotamian Art, Intersectionality in Sports, Flute Performance, Zoology, Sexual Development in the Infant, Ballroom Dance, French Existentialism, Phlebotomy, Astronomy, History of Jazz. Does this help? We already have 3 y…

This, I dropped out of college after doing the majority of the "core". I do well and can easily afford to finish without loans, but finishing requires a bunch of general education credits that I see no benefit from.
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