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NordVPN sued by Torguard for blackmail [pdf]

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Re: NordVPN sued by Torguard for blackmail [pdf]

#111

Post by Lowkeyloki »

cyberpunk wrote: post #20
cyberpunk wrote: post #10

Had a quick skim; it seems at a glance like someone from TorGuard badmouthed NordVPN on a youtube comment ( sigh ), so NordVPN apparently in response threatened to disclose "trade secret information obtained by NordVPN regarding TorGuard’s systems" it obtained via a hosting provider TorGuard used which is owned by the NordVPN people. This apparently involved some pretty sketchy stuff like sending people to the house…

Reading the parent pdf vs Nord's response [0] I'm slightly more inclined to believe Nords version of events here... 0: https://nordvpn.com/blog/torguard-lawsuit/

Nobody comes off looking particularly good here. If these corporations are going to act like grade schoolers calling each other names on the playground, I'm inclined to not use either of them.

I used NordVPN for about a year a couple of years ago and I found their quality of service unsatisfactory. I've been using ProtonVPN for about a year now and I've been very satisfied. But that's just my personal experience and YMMV.

Re: NordVPN sued by Torguard for blackmail [pdf]

#112

Post by penagwin »

LinuxBender wrote: post #109
penagwin wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This here is assuming you don't have a nation state actively trying to track you down. Otherwise see [0] One option is to use basically any provider + prepaid visa cards. Just access the website over tor or a VPN you semi trust. Sure it's technically traceable but not without a lot of trouble. Keep in mind that once the VPS provider is issued a subpoena they still have access to your connecting computer's IP. They th…

I've tried using prepaid cards with VPS providers and only found one that still took them (as of a couple years ago). Most won't take gift cards (prepaid visa) any more.

Hmm I was wondering if that was the case nowadays.

Honestly I don't think the extra step is worth it since the VPS will still know your origin IP in the event of a subpoena anyway.

You could try https://privacy.com but ironically I doubt it'll help much in terms of privacy. (I use privacy for convenience, as it essentially mitigates your card numbers being leaked - they're locked to the vender and you can impose spending limits)

Unfortunately I doubt there's many people who want 100% privacy that you'd want as customers if you're a VPS provider. I know Vultr accepts crypto but you have to prove your identity first (still great if you're a crypto advocate as privacy isn't the only benefit).

Otherwise you're stuck with resellers and grey-market providers. You could try "bulletproof" hosts from various uh-greyhat-forums but trusting those is very mehhhhh.

Re: NordVPN sued by Torguard for blackmail [pdf]

#113

Post by despera »

This whole drama (not of the highest quality) should be a big warning for all those naive people (trying hard not to call names) who seem to not completely understand the HUGE trust threats that _all_ VPN services entail. VPN services are black boxes. You have absolutely no idea what they doing in their black boxes despite all their claims. A nice post that sums everything up: https://schub.io/blog/2019/04/08/very-precarious-narrative.h...

Re: NordVPN sued by Torguard for blackmail [pdf]

#114

Post by penagwin »

walrus01 wrote: post #101
ganoushoreilly wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I told you that a lot of these "VPN providers" were shell companies built to explicitly facilitate access and tools for crime / espionage with the premise of having users there as cover.

Not something that many HN posters will be familiar with, but if you're a holder of significant pieces of ARIN or RIPE IP space, you'll inevitably be approached by a number of suspicious looking companies that want to "rent" your ipv4 space (by the /24 block) for VPN/proxy usage. The end result if you actually fall for their bullshit is that your IP space will be listed in every RBL until the end of time, and will ha…

I'm just curious, do you own/work for a company with a bunch of ip addresses? Or did you buy them for a homelab?

Also, is there an "affordable" way to own an IP?

Re: NordVPN sued by Torguard for blackmail [pdf]

#115

Post by tobib »

kadoban wrote: post #13

NordVPN is by far the shittiest VPN service I have ever used. They billed me twice, two months in a row, and getting them to fix it was like pulling teeth. This is not to mention the hard time I had actually using the service, between random inability to connect and outages. They have ISP-level arrogance, without the lock-in. I have no idea how they're still in business. So I'd be very inclined towards believing this…

That's interesting, I too, have had the exact opposite experience. After having tried multiple VPN providers I settled for NordVPN because it gave me the most consistent speed.

Re: NordVPN sued by Torguard for blackmail [pdf]

#116

Post by msh »

jimbokun wrote: post #58
kadoban wrote: post #13

NordVPN is by far the shittiest VPN service I have ever used. They billed me twice, two months in a row, and getting them to fix it was like pulling teeth. This is not to mention the hard time I had actually using the service, between random inability to connect and outages. They have ISP-level arrogance, without the lock-in. I have no idea how they're still in business. So I'd be very inclined towards believing this…

Can anyone recommend another VPN provider, than Nord or Torguard? Main use case is for using public WiFi when travelling.

For non do it your self I would use freedome by f secure, which is a reputable security company with a long history.

For do it yourself the best option is algo.

Re: NordVPN sued by Torguard for blackmail [pdf]

#117

Post by LinuxBender »

penagwin wrote: post #112
LinuxBender wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried using prepaid cards with VPS providers and only found one that still took them (as of a couple years ago). Most won't take gift cards (prepaid visa) any more.

Hmm I was wondering if that was the case nowadays. Honestly I don't think the extra step is worth it since the VPS will still know your origin IP in the event of a subpoena anyway. You could try https://privacy.com but ironically I doubt it'll help much in terms of privacy. (I use privacy for convenience, as it essentially mitigates your card numbers being leaked - they're locked to the vender and you can impose spen…

If I were taking such measures, I would just park near a coffee shop and use their wifi, using hardware I paid cash for and periodically changing my MAC address.

VPS providers can log connections and you won't really know how long they retain the data until it matters.

Re: NordVPN sued by Torguard for blackmail [pdf]

#118

Post by knd775 »

Tomspark wrote: post #96

Hey guys, Tom Spark here. I'm the video content creator that caused this whole thing. NordVPN hates my channel since I critique and criticize them a lot. They want to censor my channel to remove the bad reviews and so forth (ironic from a VPN company that is suppose to prevent censorship no?). To date, NordVPN is one of the lowest rated VPNs on my VPN tier list at http://vpntierlist.com/ . They are also in the news a…

I'm not directly accusing you of anything, but you sort of come across as a shill or extreme fanboy of TorGuard. How can you give them 5s across the board?

-Speed: During my testing with PIA and TorGuard, PIA was consistently 50% faster.

-App: The TorGuard app is lacking in features and poorly designed.

-Price: It's substantially more expensive than most providers.

-Reputation: They've had not too great a reputation for a while now

I do not believe that you are an objective party here.

Re: NordVPN sued by Torguard for blackmail [pdf]

#119

Post by trymas »

despera wrote: post #113

This whole drama (not of the highest quality) should be a big warning for all those naive people (trying hard not to call names) who seem to not completely understand the HUGE trust threats that _all_ VPN services entail. VPN services are black boxes. You have absolutely no idea what they doing in their black boxes despite all their claims. A nice post that sums everything up: https://schub.io/blog/2019/04/08/very-pr…

100% concur to your opinion.

Anecdata, but from couple stories from people who worked/interviewed at VPN providers - I believe that in couple years we'll start see same horror stories of private data issues, like we are having with social network and internet ad businesses today.

EDIT: apparently my anecdata is not anecdotal [0]. When it's race to the bottom for consumer pricing - your bandwith is resold (or at least there's capability to do that) for botnet purposes.

[0] https://restoreprivacy.com/lawsuit-names-nordvpn-tesonet/

Re: NordVPN sued by Torguard for blackmail [pdf]

#120

Post by knd775 »

xoa wrote: post #70
jimbokun wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone recommend another VPN provider, than Nord or Torguard? Main use case is for using public WiFi when travelling.

> Main use case is for using public WiFi when travelling Your own VPN is the correct answer. If you have a fast enough symmetric link at home then just run a small machine there (or your router/sec appliance may support it) or else get a ~$5 VPS from OVH/DigitalOcean/Scaleway/Amazon/Google/MS or whomever you like and run WireGuard on it. Or if you want something more turnkey with IKEv2 support (if you have devices th…

One of my main use cases for a VPN is appearing from different countries. I also anonymize my traffic. If I own the VPS, that traffic can be tracked to my quite easily. I use a VPN for these things a couple times a week. I can (and do) use my own VPN just to secure my traffic on untrusted networks, but there's more to it that just that.
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