Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Stripe Chargeback Protection

stripe.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 219 posts

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#111

Post by burnte »

czzarr wrote: post #34
eeke wrote: post #8

I’m the PM on Chargeback Protection. Startups told us they don’t want to deal with the hassle and unpredictability of chargebacks; that’s why we built this. Happy to answer any questions you have.

0.4% is an extremely steep price for a company like mine doing over $2.5m in annual turnover (saas) which has a very low fraud rate. I actually think currently we pay less than that by doing nothing (meaning letting Paypal handle it, and losing every case). However I'd gladly pay a few thousands per year for it, or be able to pay it on selected transactions (only US for instance).

Then this offering isn't cost effective for you and you can ignore it. I'm not sure I understand why this thread is full of people complaining it doesn't solve a problem this solution isn't targeting, or, like you, saying this costs more than simply accepting your low chargeback rate. When I rent a car, I decline the offer for me being able to return the car without gas because for me, it's trivial and cheaper for me to refill the car. I don't complain that the price should be lower, or that they should instead be offering sunroofs on more cars.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#112

Post by puddingpop »

flibble wrote: post #63
eeke wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can send you a webhook on every dispute being created ( https://stripe.com/docs/webhooks ) and you could use the API to either refund the underlying charge or accept the dispute (and refund the underlying charge). We can also give you access to receiving early fraud warnings from issuers (like Visa TC40s). These are notifications from the issuers that the customer is likely going to dispute a charge. If you're hap…

> We can also give you access to receiving early fraud warnings from issuers (like Visa TC40s). Can we get webhooks for these? We currently have to manually refund charges when we get the ‘suspicious transaction’ email from stripe, which is a pain.

You can indeed get a webhook for these: https://stripe.com/docs/api/events/types#event_types-radar.e...

(disclaimer: I work on Radar at Stripe)

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#114

Post by dulse »

Congratulations!! Love the philosophy around the product and the dynamic treatment of higher risk transactions with Checkout routing to 3DS.

It must feel great to be able to support such a "simple" product, as I know there must be a ton of complexity under the hood enabling the simple form factor.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#115

Post by ijidak »

eeke wrote: post #33
Liron wrote: post #20

Any plans to offer this without requiring using Checkout specifically? We use Stripe Elements because it enables a more native seamless payment collection UX.

(PM on Chargeback Protection here.) We are rolling out with our new Checkout first because it allows us to tweak the checkout flow and e.g. send a payment which we’re on the fence about to 3D Secure (3DS) but let obviously good payments go through without 3DS. We are also exploring ways to expand Chargeback Protection to other integration options!

Thank you so much for your work on this! Really hoping you expand this to elements. (See my comment at the root level.)

This is a game-changer. We do all or nothing semi-annual educational events and fraudulent chargebacks are a HUGE source of anxiety.

.4% seems to be a very fair percent as well to charge to make this problem just go away for businesses like ours.

We happily refund customers that go through normal refund channels, but fraudulent chargebacks are a significant source of stress and revenue uncertainty.

Just last night I was shaking my head as I stumbled across an email from a customer confirming that her friend referred her to our event and that she was coming. But then a couple months later she changed her mind. We told her it's way too late for us to give her a refund on her deposit (which was clearly stated to be non-refundable in the first place). So she told her credit card company that she doesn't recognize the charge.

Even though we added her emails to our dispute evidence, and submitted evidence that she was aware of the non-refundable policy for ticket deposits, we still have no idea whether we'll actually win the dispute.

Incidents like this are a major source of frustration, and your solution is going to help us operate with less uncertainty.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#116

Post by eeke »

globile wrote: post #95

Things like this are great for the average to small merchant, BUT if you're processing more than, say, 50,000 USD a month, relying heavily on the Stripe ecosystem can take its toll and can cost you big time. - Use Stripe as the only gateway for all your international traffic, and you will see alarming drops in acceptance rates, meaning the chance of successfully charging a Mexican customer in Mexico with a US Stripe…

Thanks for your comment. We want our products to substantially decrease the barriers to international commerce, and they’re used by both businesses which are just getting started up to multinational companies with extremely sophisticated understanding of their payments needs.

Auth rates are a deep topic, and one we’re experimenting on constantly.

The topic of whether a particular business will get better auth rates going through a local gateway is a complicated one (that is probably true of many businesses and not true of many businesses); we’re working on making this sort of thing unnecessary for most businesses to think about. Philosophically, centralizing this sort of work at Stripe makes a lot of sense to us; we can deploy more engineers against auth rates than any Stripe customer could because we have a much larger surface area for improvement than any customer does.

Many of our users want something which works out of the box, and they’re the target audience for Checkout. If you want to rigorously test the behavior against your sophisticated understanding of conversions in your own business, that’s awesome; you can see exactly which transactions we flagged for being on the fence using the API.

It’s always a balancing act to make things which work out-of-the-box for someone’s first business on it’s first day and still have the power and configurability expected by extremely sophisticated operators. Getting this balance right is extremely important to us.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#117

Post by plttn »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #98
hedora wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an end user, how can I tell the modal dialog is actually my bank? It looks trivial for the vendor to man in the middle attack. I’d take my business elsewhere if presented with a UI from some random e-commerce site asking for extra personal information.

3D secure payments in Europe have been a standard for years - being presented with additional verification steps for online purchases. Attacker cannot know who you bank with. Plus, most of the time the confirmation screens are something like confirming 2nd/Xth characters of your password/date of birth.

> confirming 2nd/Xth characters

That is somehow significantly less reassuring than not having 3D Secure payments in the first place.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#118

Post by jliptzin »

Has anyone done the math on this? You’re paying an extra 0.4% fees per txn which is a lot. So your dispute loss rate would have to be > 0.4% for this to make sense. That seems pretty high. That probably means your overall dispute rate is above 0.6%. In my experience you can get your dispute rate well below 0.1% (effectively a non-issue) by making sure your support channels are working and not clogged, and you have a generous refund policy (and of course being honest about pricing and billing, especially for subscriptions).

To me this seems like knowing about a small leak in your basement, but instead of fixing it, you buy a basement water damage insurance policy.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#119

Post by sfmike »

hmm if your chargeback rate is 1% or less, this costs more then a 15 dollar chargeback anyways. at 100 AOV at 1% cback that's 40 dollars to cover what would have been 15 dollar chargeback. also if your description photos and tracking are on point there should be no chargeback you can't win, unless your processes are off.

Big agreement on the just refund vs chargeback and effect possible merchant rate increase or suspension. Would rather cut into profits a bit then have headaches of upset merchant.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#120

Post by jliptzin »

Gluten wrote: post #106

Used to run an online game, where lots of fraud was going on. People would buy ingame coins or whatever, move them elsewhere and then chargeback. Full protection at just 0.4% would have been a dream for me if I still operated that game.

Stripe are not idiots, if they’re losing a significant amount of money on this offering to a specific merchant, they’re going to close your account.
Post reply on HN