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American life is improving for the lowest paid

economist.com

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Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#111

Post by 0x262d »

peisistratos wrote: post #65

The article text does not really support the headline > By last year, the poorest 10% were still earning only a miserly 4.1% more per hour than they did (in real wages) 40 years ago. Median hourly pay for America’s workers was up a little more, by 14%. With exactly 40 years ago being in the midst of a wage downturn. Go back a little more and real hourly wages have fallen for both groups, despite GDP etc. booming for…

yes, it’s an absurdly out of touch pro-capitalist propagandistic article.

what really puts the cherry on top is that a market crash is expected soon, with much less ability to cushion it than last time. guess what market crashes due to median wages? very bad things! and the people who own lots of capital will see their fortunes recover soon enough as everyone else is cleaned out. so things look very tentatively positive now and will be very bleak in a couple years.

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#112

Post by scarface74 »

wswkb wrote: post #99
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A whole week off is seen as weird. Hang on. So even if you have paid leave, is a yearly week or two's holiday really not usual in the US? You know to go spend a week hiking or skiing in the Rockies, or fortnight camping, or whatever is your thing. Not being able to take a week or two straight to get away from civilisation would have me clawing the walls going stir crazy, and I'd probably find myself divorced. Quite…

>Not being able to take a week or two straight to get away from civilisation would have me clawing the walls going stir crazy, and I'd probably find myself divorced. That's interesting, as I recall many couples get divorced after being on vacation together because they spend most of the year separated but they discover during vacation that they can't stand each other.

Citation:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-new-resilience/2...

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#113

Post by tptacek »

esotericn wrote: post #70
tzs wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally I'm not sure it's something that makes sense, it should just be factored in to the wage. Most hourly paid jobs I know of don't have regular hours, even - how much do you pay for a week's holiday when some weeks the employee works 8 hours and some 24 hours? An average? Of what, if they've only been there a few months, say? If you want full time hourly employees (40 hours per week) to earn two weeks of pai…

I think you're missing the point another poster brought up which is that a "holiday hour" for a real hourly worker (e.g. one with flexible hours, shift work etc) is nebulous. So let's say under your system an employee works an average of 8 hours a week. After half a year they've accrued 8 hours of holiday. That's 1 day. The pay isn't the issue but the legal obligation to allow the worker to not work, if that makes se…

If you work 1 day a week, after half a year you can still take a week off; your 1 vacation day, added to the 4 other workdays you don't work.

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#114

Post by esotericn »

tptacek wrote: post #113
esotericn wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point another poster brought up which is that a "holiday hour" for a real hourly worker (e.g. one with flexible hours, shift work etc) is nebulous. So let's say under your system an employee works an average of 8 hours a week. After half a year they've accrued 8 hours of holiday. That's 1 day. The pay isn't the issue but the legal obligation to allow the worker to not work, if that makes se…

If you work 1 day a week, after half a year you can still take a week off; your 1 vacation day, added to the 4 other workdays you don't work.

A part-time/ZHC worker in the UK doesn't work a set number of days a week.

They're assigned a variable number of hours per week. It might be 4 this week, 20 the next, 0 after that, etc.

You wait for the rota and work what you've been assigned.

It's kind of like a lower-level version of being on call.

It only really even works in the first place because we have all sorts of insane welfare subsidies that mean people have their income topped up to make up the shortfall.

I would imagine something like this must exist in the US. A quick google brought up https://www.governing.com/topics/mgmt/gov-work-irregular-hou... which sounds basically like what exists here.

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#115

Post by jjeaff »

skybrian wrote: post #105
hollandheese wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are a right-wing magazine (i.e. ardently pro-capitalist). Their endorsements support that idea. All of those candidates that they supported were also ardent supporters of capital.

This is kind of a weird critique though. It's like, it's not enough for a movie critic to think some movies are bad and they should have been made better. They have to hate the whole concept of movies.

Or more like, to be a true critical, you can only like the stuff that no one has ever heard of.

"Oh me, yes, I'm very liberal. I'd tell you about what candidate I support, but you've probably never heard of them..."

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#116

Post by Fjolsvith »

themagician wrote: post #34
aphextron wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I may be getting it wrong as I don't live in US, but does it mean he only gets one week of holidays per year? Yes, and even that is a rarity for wage workers. >Is there any other form of paid off time? Nope. Most hourly workers are lucky to get a few unpaid sick days. Have an accident, or get sick and need to spend a couple weeks in the hospital? Now you're unemployed and bankrupt.

This is both true and mind boggling to me. I employ 5-10 unskilled people at any given time. Mostly for assembly and packing. They get two weeks PTO, and at least a week of paid vacation throughout the year when we close for holidays, mostly more. At the end of the day the total annual cost to provide this is well worth the drama it keeps out of the workplace. Sick days? Take as many as you need. I don’t want sick pe…

> Sick days? Take as many as you need. I don’t want sick people at the office.

I hire people trained or untrained for my shed manufacturing business. Younger (under 25 years) people try to pull the "my stomach is hurting" and take the rest of the day off. I tell them they need to go see the doctor and bring a note from the doctor excusing the time off they need for their sickness. Otherwise, I don't get decent workweeks out of them younglings.

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#117

Post by SauciestGNU »

Fjolsvith wrote: post #116
themagician wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is both true and mind boggling to me. I employ 5-10 unskilled people at any given time. Mostly for assembly and packing. They get two weeks PTO, and at least a week of paid vacation throughout the year when we close for holidays, mostly more. At the end of the day the total annual cost to provide this is well worth the drama it keeps out of the workplace. Sick days? Take as many as you need. I don’t want sick pe…

> Sick days? Take as many as you need. I don’t want sick people at the office. I hire people trained or untrained for my shed manufacturing business. Younger (under 25 years) people try to pull the "my stomach is hurting" and take the rest of the day off. I tell them they need to go see the doctor and bring a note from the doctor excusing the time off they need for their sickness. Otherwise, I don't get decent workwe…

If you're demanding they see a doctor then you should be paying for them to do it. Otherwise the employees are losing wages and paying additional fees for the privilege.

Unless an employee has demonstrated that they can't take leave appropriately, you really should get out of their business and let them use the benefits they're entitled to.

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#118

Post by RickJWagner »

peisistratos wrote: post #65

The article text does not really support the headline > By last year, the poorest 10% were still earning only a miserly 4.1% more per hour than they did (in real wages) 40 years ago. Median hourly pay for America’s workers was up a little more, by 14%. With exactly 40 years ago being in the midst of a wage downturn. Go back a little more and real hourly wages have fallen for both groups, despite GDP etc. booming for…

According to Forbes, Vox, The Heritage Foundation, etc.(in other words, people all across the liberalconservative spectrum) American poor are vastly better off than the rest of the world, and American poor are moving forward.

The poor in America often have climate controlled environments, cell phones, access to employment opportunities, access to charitable organizations and more. With rising wages, their fortunes are increasing.

It's not easy or desirable to be poor. But if you have to be poor, being American in 2019 is a pretty good spot.

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#120

Post by NeedMoreTea »

wswkb wrote: post #99
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A whole week off is seen as weird. Hang on. So even if you have paid leave, is a yearly week or two's holiday really not usual in the US? You know to go spend a week hiking or skiing in the Rockies, or fortnight camping, or whatever is your thing. Not being able to take a week or two straight to get away from civilisation would have me clawing the walls going stir crazy, and I'd probably find myself divorced. Quite…

>Not being able to take a week or two straight to get away from civilisation would have me clawing the walls going stir crazy, and I'd probably find myself divorced. That's interesting, as I recall many couples get divorced after being on vacation together because they spend most of the year separated but they discover during vacation that they can't stand each other.

I always heard as Xmas - particularly the big family Xmas - as the biggest trigger stressor for divorce.

Everyone here is taking one or two two holidays a year with their partner, as well as several long weekends and all the statutory holidays such as Xmas, Easter etc, yet divorce seems broadly comparable across the globe. Even if a few of those are only lazing in the back garden or redecorating the lviing room.

Being prevented from doing any of that with partner by an employer in the dark ages would also be a divorce stressor. If one partner takes a job with shite holiday provision, the other - also used to civilised holiday provision - is likely to end up resentful, no?

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