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U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

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Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#111

Post by petschge »

emmelaich wrote: post #97
semajian wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the most prominent counterexample is Germany, which has basically free tuition. They also have different kinds of high schools preparing people for universities or trades, not everyone needs to go to university.

If all good education was free there would be no private Universities in Germany. But there are many and they all charge fees. Also, _not_ all public universities are free.

Typically you pay $200 per semester in enrollment fees (bus ticket to the city included). And while private universities in Germany exists they are absolutely tiny compared to the public ones.

Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#112

Post by anon1m0us »

larrywright wrote: post #110
anon1m0us wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a great idea. It's always wise to invest in education. The student loans ARE an investment. The only real problem with the student loans is that they gave them to people without concrete earning potential. They should have only gave out loans to educate people at real institutions (not U. of Phoenix eg) in practical areas like engineering or science. Instead, they gave a lot of loans to people who wouldn…

That's exactly what I'm saying. Free college doesn't solve the problem, because the real problem isn't the cost of college, it's people pursuing degrees that aren't useful in the real world.

Ah, I see. So we should have free practical education. Free engineering universities and such, but not free ... let's call them, humanities universities?

I'd be ok with that. If you want a humanities degree, then you have to pay. Maybe those still have student loans, but not big ones.

Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#113

Post by dantheman »

TomMckenny wrote: post #84
nimbius wrote: post #10

Disclosure: I work as a blue-collar engine mechanic. Ive never been to college. That having been said, im familiar with debt after the 2008 housing collapse. I lost my truck and my trailer home, partly because of a shady home loan and partly because well, my employer went out of business. That having been said it was relatively easy to discharge these debts. the bank wasnt too upset about the home and offered to help…

We want everyone who can, rich or poor, to be able to go to college. So everyone gets a loan no questions asked. No private bank would do this so it has to be government. But we want this to cost the government nothing, so the loan is uniquely inescapable. And we want Universities to charge essentially whatever they want, so the loan required is close to unlimited. We'd need to change one of those to fix the problem.…

Or, we make the applicant apply and only give them a lone we think they'll be able to repay based on their skill, the school, and the choice of major. If they start doing poorly then we don't give them future loans. It's really not that hard -- get the government out of the loan business.

Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#114

Post by rayiner »

anon1m0us wrote: post #106
larrywright wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free college is an awful idea, honestly. That's not going to fix the problem, and will most likely make it significanly worse.

I think it's a great idea. It's always wise to invest in education. The student loans ARE an investment. The only real problem with the student loans is that they gave them to people without concrete earning potential. They should have only gave out loans to educate people at real institutions (not U. of Phoenix eg) in practical areas like engineering or science. Instead, they gave a lot of loans to people who wouldn…

> It's always wise to invest in education.

That’s debatable. Regardless, college involves some education, for some. There is also a lot of partying, drug use, indoctrination, and impractical pursuits. I don’t want to fund that with public dollars, especially since our college graduation rights are already on the higher side relative to our competitor countries. If we were talking about spending public dollars on commuter trade schools, I’d feel more positively.

Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#115

Post by snarf21 »

wpdev_63 wrote: post #46

For people struggling with paying their student loans, their federal loans offer the option of being able to go on an income based repayment plan[0]. I haven't done it personally. The biggest problem with the US higher education system is that the universities have very little skin in the game. The government more or less prints money and 'loans' it out to students and props up the universities. If the government was…

Exactly this. Prices started doubling when everyone starting getting loans. At the same time we need more craftsmen and tradespeople. The lesson is that if you give out free money, people will fight to be the first to get it.

Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#116

Post by mbrumlow »

lkrubner wrote: post #102
mbrumlow wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The assessing is done by the school as they are a trusted third party. That might be for some loans, but from my understanding everybody is guaranteed a loan, regardless of their grades. The point was the government would back the loans so those who were less affluent could also go to school. The end result is we tried to help the poor, and screwed everybody else along the way. Not only did the poor get a bad deal,…

" but that simply how supply and demand works " Are you sure? Because the normal way of thinking about "supply and demand" is to suggest that prices will go down if supply grows faster than demand, which is what happened for nearly all of the 20th Century. And if that process has stopped, then we need to ask why. Please consider the data here: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d17/tables/dt17_302.60.a... Try to exp…

Those numbers need adjusted for population size. But I would guess that schools stopped growing. I also think looking at the past to predict the future is probably a bad way to look at things. I know I would not buy stocks that way.

Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#117

Post by downut »

cjhanks wrote: post #39
rayiner wrote: post #33

I’m convinced you can’t fix the education problem in the US until you can fix the demand side as well. Where I live in Maryland, you can do two years at the local community college (which is excellent) for $8,000 in tuition and fees (total), before finishing up at a four year-college. Very few people take advantage of the opportunity. Why are people clamoring for free college when they’re not using the cheaper option…

I also do not understand this. For example, Arizona community colleges (2 years) are $2,400 while Arizona state universities are $10k. People are deciding to spend more money elsewhere. They have been convinced that to have a successful career and life they must be in a certain program at a specific university. And for those that wish to be academics or working as a part of the 1% at the cutting edge of their field -…

AZ parent just put a child through the public schools K-12 and then graduated U of AZ engineering BS without debt anecdotage:

The local CC is a disaster for teaching anything to do with that cursed label "STEM": math end-game beginning calculus is almost non-existent, other math classes focus on "business math"[1] and subjects such as real english skills or heaven forbid a foreign language are just barely rudimentary, which you can discover on your own by looking at the course availabilities, readily available online. Sure, you can get a nursing education, or law enforcement, but you can barely get any preparation at all for UA technical coursework. Some manage it anyway of course; when I was in the graduate math program at ASU in Tempe, the first PhD awarded in years started with beginning 1st year Algebra.

[1] "business math" I hardly understand myself, I really felt bad for the students. It makes no sense at all as a curriculum. But it does supply something for a market demand.

Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#118

Post by rayiner »

anon1m0us wrote: post #112
larrywright wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Free college doesn't solve the problem, because the real problem isn't the cost of college, it's people pursuing degrees that aren't useful in the real world.

Ah, I see. So we should have free practical education. Free engineering universities and such, but not free ... let's call them, humanities universities? I'd be ok with that. If you want a humanities degree, then you have to pay. Maybe those still have student loans, but not big ones.

But we won’t get that. American culture and politics won’t permit it. (I can see the New Yorker articles now.) Not only that, we won’t even get the quota systems for different majors various European countries have. It’ll be underwater basket weaving for everyone, at the public expense.

Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#120

Post by anon1m0us »

rayiner wrote: post #118
anon1m0us wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I see. So we should have free practical education. Free engineering universities and such, but not free ... let's call them, humanities universities? I'd be ok with that. If you want a humanities degree, then you have to pay. Maybe those still have student loans, but not big ones.

But we won’t get that. American culture and politics won’t permit it. (I can see the New Yorker articles now.) Not only that, we won’t even get the quota systems for different majors various European countries have. It’ll be underwater basket weaving for everyone, at the public expense.

Perhaps I'm an idealist, but I think we can do it right. We had two tracks in high school. the ones who could go to college stayed in class all day. The others who were slated for blue collar jobs went to trade school for the first half of the day, then took essential classes in the afternoon.
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