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China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

reuters.com

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Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#111
post #57
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect. The tariffs are costing Chinese businesses and the government greatly. There is some other benefit to this that isn't explained by negotiation tactics. Although I cannot rule out a total misread of Trump by China, due to poor analysis, intelligence or misinformation.

Yeah, I guess the same tactic didn't work for North Korea, right? Oh, wait..

North Korea doesn't have an economy dependent on exports to the US consumer market. Not a good comparison.

Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#112
post #66

I think this is a very strange development. I'm a bit surprised they would backtrack at all. Rather in the past they've agreed to various regulations and laws and ... just not enacted or simply enacted and not followed them. That last part being the real question in all these details, does it matter if a deal gets made anyway? If anything the traditional route would have allowed the POTUS to declare victory and every…

They're hoping for a democratic administration in 2020 to negotiate with.

I'm not convinced that in pushing the issue further.... that they're going to get someone friendly, possibly the opposite.

Trump, if anything, may have shown you can call out China and do things and ... the sky doesn't fall.

I don't doubt that it is possible that China's leadership feels something will change, I'm not so sure they get what they want.

Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#113
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The import tariffs are paid by the people inside the importing nation. A US import tax on Chinese goods is a tax on American consumers and manufacturers. The way to tax China itself would be an export tax on money bound to China, including the transfers of immobile or intangible assets to Chinese nationals or corporations via domestic exchanges or brokerages--and including the cash value of transferred intellectual p…

> US import tax on Chinese goods is a tax on American consumers and manufacturers. And a regressive tax at that, as it will affect poor people more compared to the better off.

A 25% tariff results in low-singe digits % price increase at in the store. The tariffs are on cost of goods, but cost of goods is usually a fairly small fraction of retail price.

Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#114
post #17

I suspect Xi wants this dispute to continue for internal Chinese reasons. The tariffs impact different sectors and regions in China differently. It may be continued tariffs are reducing overcapacity in a manner that allows Xi to save face internally. It could be the tarrifs are breaking the back of powerful exporting provinces (eg. Jiagnsu) and helping Xi consolidate power. It may also be the case that things need to…

That makes more sense to me than this whole "China is waiting for the US elections" stuff.

China pushing back publicly (rather than making a deal and then ... simply not following through) against the US doesn't play well in the US as far as getting someone they want elected. Americans hurting economically are the folks cheering on Trump to some extent (well a vocal portion) and aren't likely to back a deal that isn't perceived to be favorable.

If the administration in China is playing an internal game, that makes a lot more sense than trying a potentially very counterproductive play in the US.

Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#115
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if the depiction here displays all the nuances that's being described: (Minor edit: I want to emphasize I'm not trying to challenge for any political chargement, even though this is a politically charged area. I'm mostly interested because this is drastically different from my understanding, and believe this is an educated viewpoint from different sources that I lack in my life. I'm looking to be appropr…

1. It’s not that leaving Afghanistan (and Iraq, and Syria) doesn’t have a single downside. But I am very much in favor of getting out anyway. We can’t afford to keep spending on the order of $2.5 trillion dollars for a part of the world which is increasingly irrelevant as the US has become oil rich and indeed the world’s biggest oil producer — achieved under Trump by the way. Trump is very much anti-interventionist a…

> the US has become oil rich and indeed the world’s biggest oil producer — achieved under Trump by the way

This is some intense shilling. For better or worse, the trend of US oil production just continued under Trump.

https://www.macrotrends.net/2562/us-crude-oil-production-his...

Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#116
post #115
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. It’s not that leaving Afghanistan (and Iraq, and Syria) doesn’t have a single downside. But I am very much in favor of getting out anyway. We can’t afford to keep spending on the order of $2.5 trillion dollars for a part of the world which is increasingly irrelevant as the US has become oil rich and indeed the world’s biggest oil producer — achieved under Trump by the way. Trump is very much anti-interventionist a…

> the US has become oil rich and indeed the world’s biggest oil producer — achieved under Trump by the way This is some intense shilling. For better or worse, the trend of US oil production just continued under Trump. https://www.macrotrends.net/2562/us-crude-oil-production-his...

Letting good things continue is just as important as making bad things stop.

Obviously the US produced oil before Trump. But oil production has increased remarkably in the last couple years, and support for expanded drilling access and pipelines is a part of that. Agreed, for better or worse. It’s hardly controversial that Trump is pro domestic oil production. Just look at Bolton’s comments at the recent Arctic summit!

Oil could increase more under a Trump presidency than any other in history. Certainly under a barrel/mo basis if not also as a percentage increase YoY.

Your cited graph is hardly definitive. A long period of stagnation followed by hypergrowth, reconciliation in 2015, and then more hypergrowth.

Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It bans taxes on "articles exported". Banknotes, shares of stocks, bonds, title to real property--these are arguably not "articles". You couldn't tax a crate of polypropylene combs going from Chicago to Shenzhen. You might be able to tax the sale of 100 shares of stock in Acme Unbreakable Combs, Inc. to Chan Jingwei of Shenzhen on the Nasdaq exchange. Maybe tax the transfer of technical plans and patent rights for a…

Is there any caselaw that takes that view?

Someone would have to enact a law establishing an export tax first. As far as I am aware, you can't challenge a law as unconstitutional until it has been passed and signed.

Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#118
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way to wipe out a history of past trade imbalances would be to announce the retirement of the domestic currency, citing counterfeiting or hacking, hyperinflation, or whatever else that may sound plausible. You then allow only your own nationals to exchange old money for new money. In order to avoid losing all of the value of their old money, foreign holders would have to buy something from a domestic person,…

That sounds like a great way to lose reserve currency status immediately.

If your currency is a reserve currency, this measure is unnecessary--you can just print more of it.

Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#119
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are very real problems with how China treats foreign companies (intellectual theft, requirements to partner with Chinese companies and many more). I'm happy they get addressed. However, Trump completely misrepresents the problem and the impact of tariffs. The negotiations clearly are tackling the right issues, yet here he is talking about trade deficits as some kind of theft and tariffs as a straight up win lik…

His style of talking is to use simple terms even to the extent of sounding stupid to let the messages go across clearly. Trade deficits being neutral or slight bad is a niche view by a some economists. Most people view trade deficits as bad, rightly or wrongly. The word deficit, loss, and inbalance all have bad connotation. And the loss is huge, adding to a dramatic effect. He's trying to justify his action to his vo…

If the market was fair, then it's the US's fault to not make more attractive products and buy tons of stuff from China. It wouldn't be China's fault that they are successful and we are not. It would be like Obama bitching about Germany that I mentioned above. But that's not what's going on here. China is playing unfairly.

Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're hoping for a democratic administration in 2020 to negotiate with.

Another year and a half is a long time to make your people suffer. And a lot of the supply chains that moved out of China might not come back. Waiting is a hell of a gamble.

I'm not sure a year and a half of unfavorable trade means much to a dictator who declares themself dictator for life, imprisons millions of citizens in re-education camps and engages in mass censorship.
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