Earlier quoted context omitted.
get him back?
Get him back [to the usa] - is implied
he was in the USA?
Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach
111–120 of 178 posts
Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks; today I learned the US President can pardon a non-US-citizen. Your post made me go look it up. I would never have thought...
The President can pardon all crimes against the United States- the citizenship of the perpetrator doesn't come into it.
Only federal crimes though, so if a state picked up any charges against him the president can't do much about it.
Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, no, but I feel like there's a huge jump between that, which clearly was a failure and "we can mind control people now and were going to do it on Assange". If the US were capable of such actions with ease, I feel like we'd see a lot less conflict in the world as political opponents were slowly stifled, and that doesn't seem the case. Also, what benefit would that have? If the people who Assange truly speaks to a…
>If the US were capable of such actions with ease, I feel like we'd see a lot less conflict in the world as political opponents were slowly stifled, and that doesn't seem the case. This is assuming the less conflict is the desired result. It seems that having conflict leads to greater voter support of taxes being spent to protect against that conflict and to adoption of more authoritarian policies. There is also far…
> There is also far more instances of conspiracy theories being true than just MKUltra, some of which serve to fill in the gap.
Yes, I particularly enjoy the ones about aliens - some conspiracy theories being true doesn't mean others are as well - each must be judged on it's own merits, and not as a group.
> As for the why him... why would they have gotten a CIA agent tied up into the whole mess to begin with?
Who are you referring to with the CIA agent? And let's be honest, he trades in classified documents - why wouldn't intelligence be involved with him?
I still don't understand what value brainwashing him would have - assuming he's not already compromised by some other power in this clandestine game of cat and mouse that apparently exists below the mainstream medias reckoning, why would we believe he is in fact one of the good guys?
Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach
#114Craig Murray's reaction is worth reading [1]. I realize he does not respond to the bail breach directly, but rather to what precipitated this chain of events. > If the Swedish allegations against Julian Assange were genuine and not simply a ruse to arrest him for extradition to the United States, where is the arrest warrant now from Sweden and what are the charges? > Only the more minor allegation has passed the stat…
> In the case of the allegation in Sweden that did fall through the statute of limitation, the accusation was that during the act of consensual sex Julian Assange deliberately split the condom with his fingers, without consent. ... But the split condom given to Swedish police as evidence had none of Assange’s DNA on it – a physical impossibility if he had worn it during sex. And the person making the accusation had p…
Regardless of the allegation's basis in fact (or lack thereof)...
Based on all the problems Assange has faced in the last 8 years, it's pretty much "mission accomplished, total victory".
Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach
#115I suspect that the USA isn't keen to make him a martyr, and that key players recognize the minimal value in prosecuting him now. It will be interesting to see how they utilize this nearly year-long reprieve from Assange's political posturing.
I'm not sure many folks would think of him as a martyr. A lot of the previous good will about leaking important documents seems to have been washed away by Wikileak's crafting things to form their own narratives.
Name one unbiased news source. We are in the age of information wars.
Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wikileaks is not the one torturing people, dropping bombs on innocent people, committing war crimes on a regular basis. The people of America, are . Wikileaks are also not the only ones reporting on all of these acts. Certainly, one must seek multiple sources. Read the Wikileaks - START there. But then follow up with Amnesty International, AirWars.org, and any one of a number of other non-state/non-corporate organs o…
I understand we have reason to distrust the mainstream monolith, but I don't see why I should trust Wikileaks. You're not providing evidence for, just arguments against. "Because it's not mainstream" gains it nothing. So is Infowars.
What has Wikileaks released that ended up being false?
EDIT: Just because you don't like what they have released, doesn't mean it is factually incorrect. It is factually correct, based on real evidence, that the United States of America has committed war crimes for which it has not prosecuted the perpetrators. It is factually correct that America has been involved in the destruction of sovereign states all over the globe.
It is factually correct that Clinton is duplicitous.
Just because you don't like these facts, doesn't mean that Wikileaks cannot be trusted.
Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach
#117I suspect that the USA isn't keen to make him a martyr, and that key players recognize the minimal value in prosecuting him now. It will be interesting to see how they utilize this nearly year-long reprieve from Assange's political posturing.
I'm not sure many folks would think of him as a martyr. A lot of the previous good will about leaking important documents seems to have been washed away by Wikileak's crafting things to form their own narratives.
Having a bias and "crafting things to form their own narratives" are two very different things. Yes, Assange has an anti-HRC bias because of his beliefs (rightly or wrongly) of how she would act as president. Unfortunately, all reporting is biased. I would love it if WikiLeaks was a completely-unbiased news source but such a thing really doesn't exist. Publishing the Iraqi/Afghan war logs was an example of having an anti-war bias.
But all of the leaks were factual, no "crafting" to form a narrative involved. The DNC did undermine Bernie Sanders, she did say she had "private and public positions", and a whole host of other things. Just because they didn't publish what the RNC was doing doesn't make the leaks any less true or important.
Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wikileaks is not the one torturing people, dropping bombs on innocent people, committing war crimes on a regular basis. The people of America, are . Wikileaks are also not the only ones reporting on all of these acts. Certainly, one must seek multiple sources. Read the Wikileaks - START there. But then follow up with Amnesty International, AirWars.org, and any one of a number of other non-state/non-corporate organs o…
I understand we have reason to distrust the mainstream monolith, but I don't see why I should trust Wikileaks. You're not providing evidence for, just arguments against. "Because it's not mainstream" gains it nothing. So is Infowars.
I've seen two arguments on why to trust Wikileaks.
Wikileaks itself likes to say nothing they have published has been disputed as being incorrect. Since 2006 they have never published a retraction/correction and Wikileaks claims that no one has proven a factual inaccuracy in any of the documents they published. I don't know of any factual inaccuracies myself, but if you know of any I would be interested to hear about it. I think most can agree that this is uncommon in most media (mainstream or otherwise).
Another weaker argument is the incredible lengths various governments have gone to suppress Wikileaks. The demonization of Wikileaks (especially in the media) is sometimes cited as a reason to trust its publications. The argument goes that because Wikileaks is attacked by such powerful and arguably corrupt institutions that Wikileaks must be a perceived threat to these institutions. On its face, this argument is much weaker than the previous one. Censorship of InfoWars makes the comparison you made seem quite apt in this regard. Another counterargument to this point is that apparent opposition can be purely theatrical similar to professional wrestling. Lenin's quote on controlled opposition is appropriate in this context.
Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
I understand we have reason to distrust the mainstream monolith, but I don't see why I should trust Wikileaks. You're not providing evidence for, just arguments against. "Because it's not mainstream" gains it nothing. So is Infowars.
What has Wikileaks released that ended up being false? EDIT: Just because you don't like what they have released, doesn't mean it is factually incorrect. It is factually correct, based on real evidence, that the United States of America has committed war crimes for which it has not prosecuted the perpetrators. It is factually correct that America has been involved in the destruction of sovereign states all over the g…
You're telling me everything Wikileaks has ever produced has proven to be demonstrably true? Because I don't know how you'd prove many extraordinary claims false. It's hard to prove the negative.
Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
To imply he was responsible or even warranted such an expensive operation is ludicrous. Second, it's bad - but not unexpected - that the US' secret arrest warrant, which it turns out did exist, was not factored in.
Assange is not responsible for deliberately skipping bail? I'm somewhat shocked by the idea that people should be allowed to get away with breaking the law just because it would be expensive to catch them. I don't think many British people would agree with that attitude.
I imagine a few people a year skip bail, and I think it's fair to say most of them don't have a 16 million police operation thrown at them.
People also seem to be happy to forget the UN has found he has been arbitrarily detained [0]. The judge could have factored that in, she did not, probably to save face in light of a ridiculous 16 million pound police operation and pandering to US relations.
[0] https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?N...