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Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

nytimes.com

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Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#111

Post by zorked »

freeflight wrote: post #89
pjc50 wrote: post #40

So as an occasional (male) rider of real horses, there's something I've always wondered about: how did the recreation become so gendered? Up until about the middle of the 20th century there was still utilitarian and military horse riding. Men would learn to ride. Now it seems to be culturally associated almost entirely with young upper-middle-class girls or middle-aged women. Is this the result of toy marketing (My L…

Imho different gender preferences might play a big role. A horse combines utilitarian with something emotional: You get means of transportation but you also gotta empathize and take care of said transportation because it's a breathing and feeling being. While most males probably prefer the "no hassle" approach of motor vehicles, where you don't have to empathize to figure out what's wrong but only need to check for "…

I live near a riding school. I asked my son whether he wanted to learn how to ride a horse. He said yes, enthusiastically, and spent days reading and watching movies about cowboys. Then we went to visit the school on the weekend. He only saw girls wearing pink giggling and riding the horses. Before we even entered the gate he said he was no longer interested.

Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#112

Post by [deleted] »

pjc50 wrote: post #40

So as an occasional (male) rider of real horses, there's something I've always wondered about: how did the recreation become so gendered? Up until about the middle of the 20th century there was still utilitarian and military horse riding. Men would learn to ride. Now it seems to be culturally associated almost entirely with young upper-middle-class girls or middle-aged women. Is this the result of toy marketing (My L…

[deleted]

Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#113

Post by mises »

pjc50 wrote: post #40

So as an occasional (male) rider of real horses, there's something I've always wondered about: how did the recreation become so gendered? Up until about the middle of the 20th century there was still utilitarian and military horse riding. Men would learn to ride. Now it seems to be culturally associated almost entirely with young upper-middle-class girls or middle-aged women. Is this the result of toy marketing (My L…

Many activities popular among men involve danger or risk. I would postulate that after the death of utilitarian and military horse-riding, the connotations of it changed. It became more of a leisure activity, and was largely supplanted by the faster, more utilitarian, more military car/truck/bike culture (at least in America). To your point about mid-20th century, I would suspect WWII had something to do with it.

Another poster also mentioned that it is less than comfortable for men. This is true. I would imagine it to be a serious motivation to switch to cars.

Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#114

Post by thinkingemote »

pjc50 wrote: post #40

So as an occasional (male) rider of real horses, there's something I've always wondered about: how did the recreation become so gendered? Up until about the middle of the 20th century there was still utilitarian and military horse riding. Men would learn to ride. Now it seems to be culturally associated almost entirely with young upper-middle-class girls or middle-aged women. Is this the result of toy marketing (My L…

Horse sports seem different.

Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#115

Post by mises »

okmokmz wrote: post #105
freeflight wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imho different gender preferences might play a big role. A horse combines utilitarian with something emotional: You get means of transportation but you also gotta empathize and take care of said transportation because it's a breathing and feeling being. While most males probably prefer the "no hassle" approach of motor vehicles, where you don't have to empathize to figure out what's wrong but only need to check for "…

For this to hold true you need to buy into the traditional gender stereotypes

The fact that you disagree with "traditional" gender stereotypes does not mean they have not held true for large parts of history. The reasons for this are debatable, as are its merits, but it is still a part of history.

Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#116

Post by wemdyjreichert »

1000units wrote: post #108
mises wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many people can be unemployed for life and still survive Unless you mean housewiving, no one can be unemployed for life (save perhaps welfare queens). I still consider housewiving to be a job; it is quite a bit of work. To what are you referring?

Housewiving is more of a hobby until you have children.

Which most housewives have.

Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#117

Post by Noos »

asark wrote: post #103
pjc50 wrote: post #40

So as an occasional (male) rider of real horses, there's something I've always wondered about: how did the recreation become so gendered? Up until about the middle of the 20th century there was still utilitarian and military horse riding. Men would learn to ride. Now it seems to be culturally associated almost entirely with young upper-middle-class girls or middle-aged women. Is this the result of toy marketing (My L…

The Official Preppy Handbook repeatedly treats a phase of interest in horses and horseback riding as nigh-inevitable for girls (of the set of people it's describing, so, the wealthy professional class up through the idle rich, though especially the lower half of that range) and no consideration at all for boys. It was published in 1980, so before My Little Pony, and much of what it describes, though tongue in cheek,…

National Velvet was a movie released in 1944 starring a young Elizabeth Taylor and Mickey Rooney. It's about steeplechase, but it won two Oscars and is probably one of the biggest horse girl movies out there. Maybe it helped create the desire some.

Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#118

Post by RichardCA »

rusk wrote: post #90
pjc50 wrote: post #40

So as an occasional (male) rider of real horses, there's something I've always wondered about: how did the recreation become so gendered? Up until about the middle of the 20th century there was still utilitarian and military horse riding. Men would learn to ride. Now it seems to be culturally associated almost entirely with young upper-middle-class girls or middle-aged women. Is this the result of toy marketing (My L…

My facile observation for the day: I think horse riding is less enjoyable for men due to differences of anatomy.

I was fortunate to go to Cal Poly (Pomona, not SLO) for college. You were allowed to take Equitation classes to satisfy your General Ed requirement. It's definitely a culture.

Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#119

Post by kelchm »

rusk wrote: post #90
pjc50 wrote: post #40

So as an occasional (male) rider of real horses, there's something I've always wondered about: how did the recreation become so gendered? Up until about the middle of the 20th century there was still utilitarian and military horse riding. Men would learn to ride. Now it seems to be culturally associated almost entirely with young upper-middle-class girls or middle-aged women. Is this the result of toy marketing (My L…

My facile observation for the day: I think horse riding is less enjoyable for men due to differences of anatomy.

Really not an issue once you learn how to ride and develop the right muscles. It's all in how you sit and learn to move with the horse rather than just reacting.

I admittedly did use a jock strap when I was first getting started, but within a few months I found that I was better off without it. Even riding bareback (Without a saddle) is completely doable once you have the right muscle stamina.

Re: Finland’s Hobbyhorse Girls

#120

Post by wemdyjreichert »

lmm wrote: post #77
wemdyjreichert wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-defense. Know two other guys who have possibly had their lives (or at any rate, probably hospital visits) saved in street fights and muggings. There are also countless juniors who have been able to fend off bullies. It's also exercise, which has extensive and proven benefits. It also has huge benefits in terms of bone strength and density. So yes, I would say real-world application. Is it recreational in some wa…

> Self-defense. Know two other guys who have possibly had their lives (or at any rate, probably hospital visits) saved in street fights and muggings. There are also countless juniors who have been able to fend off bullies. Some martial arts have some application to self-defense, but I don't think that's the real distinction - people don't seem to treat e.g. Naginata as a less serious martial art even though you'd nev…

> Some martial arts have some application to self-defense, but I don't think that's the real distinction

Many of the martial artists whom I know began training for purposes of self-defense. Some began as adults, and some were placed in training by their parents after being bullied.

> cycling

That's totally out of the scope of this conversation; I made no claims as to the seriousness with which cycling ought to be treated. I think most sports are given too much credence.

>> It's also exercise

> Aren't those equally true of this hobbyhorse-dressage?

No, not from the gif of a "competition" at the top of the article. It does not appear to contain any serious exertion.

Most sports involve pushing yourself physically. This does not involve such exertion and improvement. If kids want to do it, that's fine (all though still weird as all getout). But I don't think them saying to not "say they are playing" because it "strips away what we've made" is really reasonable. Kids are playing dress-up; it's fine to remind them it's just dress-up. And it's ridiculous to compare it to real sports.

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