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OpenBSD 6.5

openbsd.org

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Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#111

Post by Accacin »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #60
pimeys wrote: post #2

Been running 6.5 snapshots in my travel laptop for some weeks and everything just works. The laptop is a ThinkPad X200 which is a bit slow for my needs, but upgrading it to ThinkPad X230 later this week should help. I really enjoy how simple the system is after all these years with Linux. I will always continue using Linux in my main computers, but for surfing, some hobby programming and as a travel OS OpenBSD defini…

> but for surfing, some hobby programming and as a travel OS OpenBSD definitely won me over. Mac OS X has won me (and many others) over when it comes to these topics. I'm curious why BSD would be your choice. It sounds painful?

I use MacOS at work, and I just can't get used to it. I love how fast I can navigate in i3 and how fast everything feels. I do like MacOS but I hate how the only shortcut keys to switch Windows are from cmd 1 - 5, I hate that I can't easily move windows without something like spectacle (that feels clunky - 4 buttons to move a window to another screen?) and I really can never get used to the cmd key placement :D

I've tried using Amethyst or whatever the tiling window manager is, but I found it crashed a lot and the keybindings weren't great.

Overall I think MacOS is a great OS, I just feel like I need a real tiling manager that I can't get without Linux.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#112

Post by admax88q »

Spivak wrote: post #81
mises wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't praise them for that. It's more that I don't like the systemd way of making everything systemd. The difference is that the stuff openbsd develops is largely standalone applications, whereas systemd wants to take over the world and replace everything. This makes it very hard to tweak a system, and I would again bring up the logging issue. Systemd-journald stores files in binary format, which is a pain. I was…

> I mounted the disk and tried to read off the log, but couldn't. I mean yes, you need something to parse the logs and turn them into human readable text, but the logs are perfectly readable. journalctl --file /mnt/var/log/journal/` A lot, dare I say most, of the parts of systemd actually are optional or do nothing until you use them like systemd-machined.

> journalctl --file /mnt/var/log/journal/`Lol you actually think that's good.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#113

Post by badsectoracula »

brohee wrote: post #110
badsectoracula wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, at this point it'd be pressed dual layer blu rays though, i downloaded the entire version and just the amd64 directories are around 45GB in size. I do not understand why they feel the need to associate OS versions with 3rd party packages though, why have an OpenBSD 6.5 version of -say- the 0ad game instead of an OpenBSD version of it that you say it needs at least OpenBSD 6.5 (or whatever) version to run? (same…

Packages are dependant on certain version of system librairies, and binary compatibility isn't a huge concern from version to version.

Hence the "needs at least" part, or does OpenBSD break backwards compatibility in every version for every package?

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#114

Post by admax88q »

justinsaccount wrote: post #11

> First release of unwind(8), a validating, recursive nameserver for 127.0.0.1. It is particularly suitable for laptops moving between networks. When systemd-resolvd was first released it was the biggest mistake ever to write a new recursive resolver instead of using unbound or dnsmasq. Also since DNS ".. wasn't broken, so it did not need fixing". I wonder if unwind will be received with the same hostility.

OpenBSD and its associated daemons is fairly well engineered.

Systemd is not.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#115

Post by Accacin »

As a long time Linux user, I keep thinking about trying a BSD variant, but I get hung up on two things. 1) Which do I pick? NetBSD? OpenBSD? 2) Hardware? I'm thinking about an old ThinkPad for programming, and it looks like OpenBSD at least should run fine on that. What's hardware support like overall?

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#116

Post by kbenson »

tptacek wrote: post #85
kbenson wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a way, OpenBSD isn't really written in C. It's written in a special subset of C that uses some different, more secure core functions and any where any trade-off for performance instead of security is ruthlessly weeded out when reviewed by the people involved. I'm of the opinion that using C and C++ for future major work where there's not good reasons forcing you to is more trouble than it's worth, but I wouldn't m…

While I'm generally sold on the OpenBSD strategy of replacing mainstream daemons with stripped down secure versions, I don't think it is at all reasonable to suggest that OpenBSD's library idioms mean it's implemented in something other than C (nor would it be reasonable to say that about Dan Bernstein's software, which goes even further in this direction). It's still C, and it still has memory corruption vulnerabili…

Sure. I just meant that since they adopt and enforce the usage of secure equivalents to some common functions (e.g. some string utilities), and along with very strictly enforced rules about how code gets accepted, it's about the best we can expect in some situations. Not everyone is willing to consider using something other than C. I think the pragmatic approach is to point to C projects that have been largely successful in their security approach. If it causes them to adopt the onerous requirements for safe C, or to reevaluate their position, I count those both as positive outcomes.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#117

Post by geff82 »

Accacin wrote: post #115

As a long time Linux user, I keep thinking about trying a BSD variant, but I get hung up on two things. 1) Which do I pick? NetBSD? OpenBSD? 2) Hardware? I'm thinking about an old ThinkPad for programming, and it looks like OpenBSD at least should run fine on that. What's hardware support like overall?

An Thinkpad up to the 4-Series (x240,t440,t540) can run any BSD, but after that, OpenBSD is your best bet. NetBSD (the one I learned about Unix with) has fallen a bit behind in features and hardware support, it is rarely used for production any more (makes me sad, but that is how it is). FreeBSD has a giant set of features and has the most current and largest software library, yet it does not run perfect on newer Laptops. OpenBSD ist more conservative and very pure, is used in some production environments, is actively developed but has the smallest and least up-to-date software library. So you can choose which disadvantage you can live most with. NetBSD is said to run on the largest number of platforms, but I'd argue that in practice Linux took its place long ago.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#118

Post by structural »

Spivak wrote: post #81
mises wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't praise them for that. It's more that I don't like the systemd way of making everything systemd. The difference is that the stuff openbsd develops is largely standalone applications, whereas systemd wants to take over the world and replace everything. This makes it very hard to tweak a system, and I would again bring up the logging issue. Systemd-journald stores files in binary format, which is a pain. I was…

> I mounted the disk and tried to read off the log, but couldn't. I mean yes, you need something to parse the logs and turn them into human readable text, but the logs are perfectly readable. journalctl --file /mnt/var/log/journal/` A lot, dare I say most, of the parts of systemd actually are optional or do nothing until you use them like systemd-machined.

The assumption here is that the machine you're using to do the log analysis is also a Linux machine that uses systemd (and thus has a journalctl binary). This is not necessarily true.

A lot of the annoyance that some people have with the systemd crowd is that these kind of assumptions are made all over the place. The actual software is not bad (I really do prefer dealing with systemd units than writing shell scripts for each service) but it can be hard to get past.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#119

Post by gfiorav »

I know this is pretty much a blanket question I could make about any distro but:

Can anyone here share their "switch to BSD" story and what advantages it offered over their departing distro?

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#120

Post by arendtio »

tedunangst wrote: post #93
arendtio wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I downloaded install64.iso started it and entered the shell. Next, I entered 'awk' and got the response: sh: awk: not found Maybe their live cd doesn't include the whole 'base' set?

The installer is not a live CD. It's only enough tooling to install openbsd.

Okay thanks, unexpected but good to know (at >340MB I would have expected a complete base system at least). Do you know if there is some up to date OpenBSD live CD somewhere?
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