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Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

sciencemag.org

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Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#111

Post by IdontRememberIt »

dekhn wrote: post #100
IdontRememberIt wrote: post #8

I remember when I was young (+40 years ago), many Swiss private banks would only hire Swiss people. That rule was due to the French IRS equivalent having their own employees sent to Switzerland and hired by Swiss bank. They were mole transmitting confidential information about French clients. So these private banks had to restore trust and security. Honestly still today, for some critial jobs, I do not understand com…

hhahah, I remember a meeting with Roche (swiss drug company) where they said their SAP admins had to be swiss citizens. Not German, Not French and definitely not Italian was how he said it.

Also, +20 years ago, in the big Swiss banks, you could go up in the (top) management almost only if you were an officer in the army. Times have changed. hehe

Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#112

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #5
yumraj wrote: post #2

I wonder why the headline says 'Asian' instead of saying Chinese, since all three researchers were Chinese with ties to China. As an ethic Indian, I'm kinda offended when all Asians are just lumped together as I believe it promotes general racism and bias against anyone from that continent .

In the US, Asian = people from eastern Asia. In the UK, Asian = people from southern Asia.

[deleted]

Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#113

Post by tayflores »

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Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#114

Post by Fnoord »

duxup wrote: post #85
radicalbyte wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take the case of this American politician: https://mavenroundtable.io/theintellectualist/news/wsj-kushn... The guy's family has a massive debt. He was denied security clearance because that debt makes him a big risk. His party somehow push it through (politicians, sigh) and now he has been bailed out by the Saudi regime (iirc he's foreign secretary to Saudi Arabia or something - the top politician responsible for tha…

Wouldn't think counter point be all the wealthy political folks who do the same thing?

It appears to be indeed a bias towards the poor, in favor of the rich.

Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#115

Post by Broken_Hippo »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #73
radicalbyte wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> credit checks (the credit checks were just dumb). Credit checks are extremely smart. People who are financially vulnerable are high risk.

A credit check is basically relevant to any job. If you can't be trusted to pay back your loans on time as promised how can you be trusted to do your job as promised?

No, it isn't. While a credit check can show someone acting badly, it can also show mistakes, youth, and simple bad luck.

(they used to give away credit cards to college students working part time).

It might also show that someone has a medical condition that wound up expensive, which can happen despite medical insurance.

Many of these things do not mean that you'll not do your job as promised nor that you will steal money from the company.

Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#116

Post by chrismeller »

duxup wrote: post #70
radicalbyte wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> credit checks (the credit checks were just dumb). Credit checks are extremely smart. People who are financially vulnerable are high risk.

I wonder how accurate that is. There's plenty of evidence of folks who are desperate doing desperate things... but also plenty of people doing bad things simply for "more" money. As far as financal status goes I'm not sure how good an indicator this is, for say a support role where you may or may not interact with a bank.

Why are we acting like the two are mutually exclusive? There are two vulnerability groups here:

1) People with financial difficulties who would be more prone to take small amounts on a regular basis to "round out" their income difficulties. 2) People who, even though financially secure or well off, if given the opportunity for a large score, would be tempted to take it.

There are different approaches for dealing with both, with some overlap. Limiting the possibility for any fraud by limiting access, requiring multiple approvals, etc. helps negate both groups' potential for fraud. Credit checks help to eliminate only the first group's potential.

Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#117

Post by golemiprague »

president wrote: post #13
yumraj wrote: post #2

I wonder why the headline says 'Asian' instead of saying Chinese, since all three researchers were Chinese with ties to China. As an ethic Indian, I'm kinda offended when all Asians are just lumped together as I believe it promotes general racism and bias against anyone from that continent .

So you're fine as long as racism is only directed towards races other than your own?

Yes, people have loyalty to their tribe, not saying that every Chinese in the US is loyal to china but it usually takes more generation for a Chinese to feel like America is their tribe than to a north European.

Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#118

Post by golemiprague »

toasterlovin wrote: post #90
EliRivers wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone from the UK, when I say "Asian" I mean East Asian, and when I mean someone from South Asia, I name the specific nationality. For example, I generally wouldn't refer to someone from India as "Asian".

FWIW, all the UK coverage of the grooming gang scandals refers to the perpetrators as Asian (they are mostly South Asian, and definitely not East Asian).

And mostly Muslims, but mentioning it is "islamophobia"

Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#119

Post by Melchizedek »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #115
morpheuskafka wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A credit check is basically relevant to any job. If you can't be trusted to pay back your loans on time as promised how can you be trusted to do your job as promised?

No, it isn't. While a credit check can show someone acting badly, it can also show mistakes, youth, and simple bad luck. (they used to give away credit cards to college students working part time). It might also show that someone has a medical condition that wound up expensive, which can happen despite medical insurance. Many of these things do not mean that you'll not do your job as promised nor that you will steal…

And not being born into a wealthy family.

Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#120

Post by Melchizedek »

yding wrote: post #107
IdontRememberIt wrote: post #8

I remember when I was young (+40 years ago), many Swiss private banks would only hire Swiss people. That rule was due to the French IRS equivalent having their own employees sent to Switzerland and hired by Swiss bank. They were mole transmitting confidential information about French clients. So these private banks had to restore trust and security. Honestly still today, for some critial jobs, I do not understand com…

The people mentioned in the article are Americans. Also discrimination on the basis of ethnicity and national origin is illegal: https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/discrimination/ethnicdisc

But if other "Americans" (maybe even with dual citizenship) of the same ethnicity and background have a propensity to spy on behalf of their country of origin, then it seems reasonable to be extra careful with such individuals.
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