Time is the most important thing that exists, it's sad to see people promoting this lifestyle. The most problematic it's that some Chinese millionaires are buying/investing in companies across Europe, and probably sooner than later they'll try to force that culture in European companies
Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
111–120 of 264 posts
Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not an investor, but if I were an investor I would want my stewards of capital to be awake and aware and full on. Airline pilots and professional drivers (truckers) have mandated rest, for a reason.
I'm an investor and former VC-backed founder and I'd like my stewards of capital, who are typically the best work force in the early days of startups, to work more than 40 hours. I'm sure that they do in the overwhelming majority of successful startups.
To what degree?
There is a difference between regularly working 50-hour weeks and setting those up well, and always working 72-hour weeks, which doesn’t leave you time to do the life-admin, exercise, cooking, and sleep you need to keep a clear head.
Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm an investor and former VC-backed founder and I'd like my stewards of capital, who are typically the best work force in the early days of startups, to work more than 40 hours. I'm sure that they do in the overwhelming majority of successful startups.
Truckers are mandated (in the USA) to do 60 hours in 7 days, which is more than 40 hours. If your founder works 96 hours a week for 6mths what do you think their state of mind will be? I worked 96 hours a week for eight weeks finishing off my dissertation. I finished it, but basically went crazy - I needed some time off, which was good because I crossed the line. Startups used to be like that I suppose, but now it ta…
> Truckers are mandated (in the USA) to do 60 hours in 7 days, which is more than 40 hours. If your founder works 96 hours a week for 6mths what do you think their state of mind will be?
What does that have to do with anything? 60 hours is 50% more than 40 hours, it's regulation and not science and it's a totally different job with different risks.
> are you making the best use of the human capital you are deploying?
If they are working 40 hours or less, the answer is "no" with 100% certainty. Above that, it depends.
Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
#114On one side one really needs people working 24/7, on the other I can't get why this would be a requirement. The best development progress is reached when people code for about 30 hours a week.
Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
edit: seems like there are contradicting statements from him on this so I'll remove the stuff I had written earlier. It appears he is generally against forced hours but highly encourages his employees to work those hours anyways.
This single quote misrepresents his opinion, here are some extra quotes: > But in a speech to Alibaba staff on Thursday, Ma said the company expected people to be ready to work 12 hours a day since it had huge commitments to its clients. > “If you don’t work 996 when you are young, when will you? Do you think never having to work 996 in your life is an honour to boast about?” he said in the speech.
> Do you think never having to work 996 in your life is an honour to boast about?” he said
Why wouldn't you think this?
Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
#116Jack Ma's comment on this matter is full of logical fallacy. Forcing employees to stick to the 996 schedule with no overtime pay is not equivalent to someone finding their own passion and work restless towards their own goal. He somehow mixed up these two completely different things while avoided talking about the lack of overtime pay or even basic respect for employees in many corporations. Labeling people who deman…
and nurses work long hours with lower pay The Longer The Shifts For Hospital Nurses, The Higher The Levels Of Burnout And Patient Dissatisfaction https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3608421 Nurses seek to reduce long hours and fatigue https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2015/02/01/nurse-... January 31, 2012 — State laws against mandatory overtime hours for nurses are effective, researchers reported in…
Id be more worried about tired medical staff missing things like detecting sepsis.
Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
#117I find 12 hours a day to be too much. And 6 days a week is throwing the mental health of a person off a cliff. I’ve frequently found, personally and observing others, that productivity drops after 6h of continuous work especially if it forces you to think a lot (which is pretty much always in software - you still need to apply your brain to connect the plumbing between APIs) Anything after 6h should either be menial…
People in workspaces with crazy work hours pad the remaining hours with meetings, email, going from here to there and back here. Humans only work so many hours a day. Outlier humans who can work more won't waste their talent/superpower at an employer where their extra time isn't compensated.
I have to say (as a person currently on a 25-30 hour work week), that I often times find meetings to be the most exhausting part of my job, especially when I am very engaged in them. Coding is like meditation compared to that (thought I couldn't dream of doing it more than 50 hours per week for more than a week or two).
Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
#118I'm actually kind of afraid to comment because I'm generally afraid of the Chinese government and I have a feeling they like Jack Ma and also like wage slavery just as much as him. Plus even if there is no government involved Jack Ma has quite a lot of power because of his money. But I feel this is a moral issue. The thing is, the system of employment is the evolution of plain old fashioned slavery. That is where Ma…
Not sure applying old English words or even western ideas onto a completely different culture helps here.
Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
#119Time is the most important thing that exists, it's sad to see people promoting this lifestyle. The most problematic it's that some Chinese millionaires are buying/investing in companies across Europe, and probably sooner than later they'll try to force that culture in European companies
I don't think they will have much luck with that. Also I don't have the feeling that Chinese investors have much interest in interfering with European culture (probably less so than American investors).
Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
#120Time is the most important thing that exists, it's sad to see people promoting this lifestyle. The most problematic it's that some Chinese millionaires are buying/investing in companies across Europe, and probably sooner than later they'll try to force that culture in European companies
Europeans still remember working 6 days: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wochenarbeitszeit (German only). Official workweek in Germany is 6 days even now, but tech workers tend to work 35 hours than 55. I doubt this is possible in close future. Maybe that’s why salary range ends at 100k€.