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Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

nytimes.com

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Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#111

Post by kingosticks »

UweSchmidt wrote: post #99
kyrra wrote: post #6

Even without Google or Apple, they police have the cell service providers. In the case of the Austin bomber from a year ago[0], police got cell tower records from the multiple bombings and figured out who was at all the locations. Cell phones are little trackers unless you turn them off or don't carry one. [0] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna85...

Next level analysis could take into account which/whose phones are (untypically) switched off when the bombs went off. Next next level would take into account phones that are "left at home" - where the phone is not in use and not moving around according to usual movement patterns. I would guess that there is already substantial research done on exactly this, and that it is possible to detect many deviations of normal…

They used to do that in the TV series 24.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#112

Post by rexpop »

loteck wrote: post #80
rexpop wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My representatives do not listen to me.

They probably do, but they also have to listen to hundreds of thousands of others just like you, and pick which opportunities to act on. Can you understand why they may both listen to you and not take action on your concern?

Their responses are often unrelated, or antithetical to my stated position. I think they have an inaccurate classifier.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#113

Post by rexpop »

fghtr wrote: post #87
rexpop wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My representatives do not listen to me.

Become a member of a charity fighting for your freedoms such as Electronic Frontier Foundation or Amnesty International.

I don't have disposable income.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#114

Post by nocturnial »

ehsankia wrote: post #54
fharper1961 wrote: post #18

Location data can also be used to help prove your innocence. It sucks that this innocent person ended up suffering. Hopefully law enforcement will become better at figuring out false positives before arresting someone. I do like that the gov. doesn't have direct access. Seems to me like the more independent parties required to access the data, the lower the chances of abuse.

I'm a little confused here. It turned out that it was his mother's ex-boyfriend, who had taken his car without permission. That explains the car, but how does it explain the location? Did he just happen to also leave close to there and was moving in a similar pattern? Was the phone inside the car? Really, the issue here was the car, without which they wouldn't have had enough evidence to get the person's information…

From the article: "...Mr. Molina had sometimes signed in to other people’s phones to check his Google account. That could lead someone to appear in two places at once, though it was not clear whether that happened in this case."

If this is how it really happened then the investigators didn't even bother to crosscheck the data with the cell tower information (assuming the telco logs this info). Sending false location data to google shouldn't be that hard, but it should be a lot harder to fake the cell tower connections.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#115

Post by callmeal »

kevingrahl wrote: post #61
Jerry2 wrote: post #36

> Though Google’s data cache is enormous, it doesn’t sweep up every phone, said Mr. Edens, the California intelligence analyst. And even if a location is recorded every few minutes, that may not coincide with a shooting or an assault. > But despite the drawbacks, detectives noted how precise the data was and how it was collected even when people weren’t making calls or using apps — both improvements over tracking tha…

You can turn off the collection of location data for Google. [1] You can also delete old location data. Google is saying that they won’t collect location data unless you opt-in but I’d assume most people just click on “Okay” once when asked to. Of course nobody really knows if Google honors your settings. [1] - https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3118687?hl=en

>You can turn off the collection of location data for Google.

If you have an android phone, please try turning off the location service and see what happens. The sheer number of dark patterns google uses to get you to turn it back on is illuminating.

I remember in the early versions of android, you could turn on/off the gps from the lock screen. Then one day it went away and was only available once the phone was unlocked. Now it's hidden inside the settings app. The cynic in me guesses that a future update will turn that option off as well.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#116

Post by yourbandsucks »

loteck wrote: post #80
rexpop wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My representatives do not listen to me.

They probably do, but they also have to listen to hundreds of thousands of others just like you, and pick which opportunities to act on. Can you understand why they may both listen to you and not take action on your concern?

OP is probably not a bundler for 6 figures in campaign donations, just saying.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#117

Post by arbitrarywords »

deogeo wrote: post #105
isoskeles wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's agree to disagree. I think that detaining an innocent person against their will is bad policing.

But how could it be avoided? The police don't operate on 'guilty' and 'innocent', but on 'suspect' - even if they do everything right, they'll occasionally arrest someone that will later turn out to be innocent. If they're responding to an emergency, they simply don't have time to determine guilt with much accuracy, and are just focusing on protecting possible victims. And if they're arresting someone being prosecute…

What about if the police had a dedicated fund for arrests. For the employer - they aren't allowed to sack the employee, but administrative costs of finding temp staff can be claimed from the fund. For the arrested, all cost of living expenses are covered until trial, but should they be found guilty, this becomes a CPI indexed, interest free debt. Any pre-conviction incarceration costs where accused is found innocent are also paid by the fund. This seems to grab most of the data in one account. But does also seem to add a big incentive to find people guilty...

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#118

Post by dontbenebby »

jhayward wrote: post #102
KirinDave wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen a gas station receipt with a timestamp. Is that common in other places?

I scan all my receipts, and every gas station receipt has a date and time stamp. How accurate they are is anyone's guess. I also always use a credit card for any transaction which gives another 'I was there' proof point.

The actual receipt usually has a timestamp, but IIRC credit card statements just list the date (not time).

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#119

Post by AlexCoventry »

akira2501 wrote: post #53
DontGiveTwoFlux wrote: post #2

The article describes a case where an innocent man had to spend a week in jail. Eventually, he was released and the presumed actual perpetrator was caught. The lead seemed to come from the location data, so it wasn’t useless at least. But the so called justice system says that it got it right here. The innocent man lost his job when he couldn’t work for a week. Depending on his situation he could miss rent and be evi…

> Why do we have a system that says justice was served? Because it was. There was a criminal investigation, it was processed judiciously, and as a result the man was cleared and released. None of this was based upon a _single_ piece of evidence, but multiple facts that supported each other. The only "injustice" I can detect is that he wasn't bailed out while waiting for a trial.. but the article suspiciously doesn't…

> he absolutely has the right to pursue it for remedy if he chooses.

How do these cases usually work out? If he was held on a reasonable suspicion, is there any possibility of legal remedy?

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#120

Post by PorterDuff »

eplanit wrote: post #82

Wow, we're edging closer: this + AI Crime Prediction[1] + Profiling[2], and we're basically at Minority Report. [1] https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-29047-3_... [2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09507...

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1611.04135v2.pdf
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